Joint balancing and alignment

[Left handed]

Can anyone offer magic tips to get joint balancing and alignment right from the start and hopefully avoid having to nudge flagstones around?

Laying random five size pattern.

Going to use SBR on the backs so little bit apprehensive if my flagstones need nudged a little bit and stuffs lost its adhesion after nudging around.

All previous advice has been much appreciated, so hopefully I can get more.

Thanks

[digerjones]

Problem is with the flags not being uniformed. Layed them out dry perhaps

[Left handed]

Yes. I think I'll layout flagstones dry to get a feel for joint width.

I'd love it if I could get a perfect 10 or 12mm joint width through my patio, but is it realisticly possible.

I appreciate theres a lot of variables that are hard to account for but if a top notch contractor laid a patio what would be there parameters for joint width and at what point does the variation in joint width become unacceptable? I reckon if I had a target width of 12mm but that could go to 9mm or 15mm I'd be chuffed to bits.

Have I been looking at too many catalogue photos? Am I being unrealistically ambitious?

[Left handed]

Any trade tips?

I'd be most grateful?

Thanks

[mickg]

hard to explain in words but hopefully you will grasp it ......

use plenty of steel line pins and nylon lines.. buy a 1800mm long level and a 1 metre long level .. either learn about 3:4:5 or buy a foldable aluminium square

check a few flags for size and lets say they vary from 595mm to 602mm so there is 7mm difference and you are after a 10mm - 12mm consistent joint width ... just bare in mind this is not always possible with riven paving

if your lines are set to 610mm then some joints will be 8mm wide and other joints will be 15mm wide, you might find that certain flags will touch each other but you can cut them to give you a gap for the joint once the bedding has gone hard (or they can be cut prior to laying too)


please note... I have used 610mm gauge for your lines as an example...

[Left handed]

Mick,

Thanks for the help. Highly appreciated.

Fairly confident I understand your advice, just need to hope I can follow it through.

One more (daft) question, why the need for two spirit levels?

I'm in the middle of the dry lay.

Thanks again for taking the time to help.

Thanks

[mickg]

the long one will span over a longer distance and the shorter one is easier to use from flag to flag... I have 4 different lengths levels and some days they are all in use

[mickg]

this patio and paths was 5 different sizes but laid in a coursed pattern rather than a random laying pattern

riven paving in a coursed laying pattern

[Left handed]

Thanks for the help mick, its appreciated.

Top notch photos on your website.

Ill hopefully be finished fairly soon. I'd like to put pictures up in forum in return for the help I've received. We can compare patios LOL!!

Thanks

[mickg]

can you see how tight the joints are ..... its easier on a coursed laying pattern as you can vary the line gauge to suit a row of flags where as with the random laying pattern you are governed by what you have already laid

I look forward to seeing the finished patio

[mickg]

a couple of images of the finished project ... well done it looks good buddy

[Left handed]

Thanks mick, tony and everyone else who offered advice.
I all came in useful along the way.

Four inch type 1, 40-50mm bedding layer, 5-1 sharp sand/cement, wettish, SBR slurry on the backs.

Haven't had time for pointing yet.

Thanks again.

[lutonlagerlout]

that is a stunning piece of work left handed
cracking job
what are you pointing with?
LLL

[Left handed]

LLL,

Was thinking of using DANGERPOINT, ie, sand, cement + SBR.
I've got maybe four litres spare and I don't see me needing it in future. I got quoted £46 a tub for weather point so that could be £230. My friend had patio laid recently with a sweep in product and I've looked at it and its like there's been some shrinkage and in some places its like a hairline fracture between pointing product and paving, no weeds yet but they can't be far away. Also visually I wasn't that keen on it although he couldn't confirm what was used.

Got cement too so all I need is some 25kg bags building sand. So outlay for sand cement pointing maybe tenner max compared to weather points £184 min, prob £230.

The whole time I laid patio I had bucket clean water and paint brush by my side, didn't use it too much, but I was glad I had and it worked well when I needed it. Would probably do same again. I understand its risky but I reckon if im carefull I can do it.

Need a trip to garden centre too for nice pots and stuff to fill them so wouldn't mind saving a bit on pointing gear.

What do you reckon?

[Left handed]

Any last minute encouragement or discouragement?

Doomed to go wrong or worth the risk?