This permeable paving.....

[haggistini]

Give them the option of non permeable; explain also the six week delay for planning and the possibility that they might not get it, plus the £150 quid fee and then if some nosey neighbor or someone who's heard about permeable paving informs the council it might also get ripped up almost trebling the cost in the first place.. nightmare

[lutonlagerlout]

the pikeys told me that block paving is permeable if they dont use KDS :laugh:
certain people have vested interests in promoting permeable concrete block paving, if a lineal drain is used then there is no need for the paving itself to be permeable
LLL

[irishpaving]

Just received a reply after i fired a couple of questions to the planning dept.

Hi Colm,



The new hard surfacing legislation does not fall within Building Control’s remit and therefore the new legislation will be policed by planning enforcement. Hence, a new/replacement hard standing that has been constructed out of non-porous materials or does not retain a permeable area to drain to will require planning permission. If planning permission is not sought then clients run the risk of having it ripped up if planning enforcement were to be informed. I would certainly suggest informing potential clients of this when quoting work for them.



There is no set recognised way on testing the permeability of driveways but I should imagine that the simplest option would be to pour a bucket of water over the surface and watch to see whether the water soaks either through the gaps between the block paving or is directed to soak into a permeable area within the garden. The main purpose of the legislation is to prevent surface water runoff from draining onto the highway and entering the main sewerage system. Therefore, provided that you can achieve this objective, this will be sufficient not to require planning permission.



I hope this answers your queries, if however you have any further questions please feel free to come back to us.



Kind regards,



H Seale

Planning Enquiry Officer

Milton Keynes Council

[haggistini]

there you have it, if it takes a bucket of water that'll do

[jimbob]

I have googled this but have not seen one available so thought it would be best to ask the experts.

Being a novice - is there a block paving kerb that has holes to allow water to drain through in to the soil behind?

I have a sloping driveway towards the road but I would like to have a kerb around the border at the front and it seems to make sense to me to have a kerb that allows water to go through into the border/soil rather than having all the water going into the drain that will be placed along the front of the driveway to go into the soakaway.

But being a novice I'm sure I'll be told the reason why that would not be a good idea (if such a kerb existed)!

[irishpaving]

You could just for a normal kerb unit and use a gully instead. You would make sure that the water will drain easily into the soil area you mentioned.

If not a gully then you could look at the option of the mini beany from marshalls

[paddytt]

We have an old thatched house, with some damp in one wall. The outside level is higher than the floor level, but the outside is a pathway so we can't lower the level below the floor. The typical way to fix this would be to have a channel covered with a grating, running along the wall, or a french drain along the wall.

Does anyone have any experience of using permeable block paving, with a drain below, to achieve a "breathable" solution beside such a wall?

thanks

TT

[lutonlagerlout]

permeable paving is so finickity to install and has so many "cant do's " with it ,that most on here do not go near it
my local merchant are selling off the last of their stock for £8.50 per metre
far better to use a workaround as detailed here I did this recently for a client and it left him with a 100mm gap from his path to his wall, 150 below dpc
LLL

[paddytt]

permeable paving looks so straightforward to install, why is it so difficult and do any of the "can't do's" apply to a pathway rather than a driveway?

thanks

TT

[wcroz99]

I've install permeable paving on a couple of occasions as that's what clients have specifically asked for. Personally, I try to steer clear of permeable paving myself

[lutonlagerlout]

we have priced it a couple of times and its double the cost
i have seen it done on community carparks and they turn into weedfests in 6 months
welcome to the brew cabin croz
nice webby
LLL

[Pablo]

I've been forced to sit in the house today due to the weather and I've been having conversations with the voices in my head about this very thing and a few others to boot. We're all going to have to adapt to this new climate that we've been seeing over the last few years and we're going to have to do it for less money. Just about everyjob this year for me has seen delays in starting or finishing due to the rain I've tried to adapt but it's a losing battle sometimes. In the good old days you could jump to another job but the workload isn't there anymore so you end up scratching around and somethimes making more work for yourself cleaning up than you should've. I've not pointed a patio in the traditional way for a couple of years now it's been too risky with the weather and I've got half a dozen lawns waiting to be finished but the soils too wet and the clients don't always have the patience. The machines we use to build with are sometimes our biggest enemies when it rains because of the soil compaction and mushing up meaning the water runs off and doesn't get into the ground. If like me you live in an area with very heavy clay then digging holes in the ground is pointless. Permeable paving is cost prohibitive and due to the amout of rain we get I'd say the design is possibly already obsolete. If the weathers been wet then the grounds water logged and the attenuation area is going to be full meaning any more rain will overflow into the storm system anyway and the whole construction has been a waste of money. Add to that an average driveway is 60-120m2 if you were to dig down 600mm you'd be removing between 36 and 72m3 a normal tipper only carries between 6 and 9m3 and you're going to spend a fortune on doing that sort of thing in an urban area. It's the sort of thing that ticks a box and make it look like you've been good to the environment but with the amount of rain we'll probably see in the future and the demand on landfill space becoming critical is digging big pointless holes the right thing to do. And don't get me started about rainwater harvesting on private properties why would you spend tens of thousands so you can save a hundred quid on your rates.

[lutonlagerlout]

ever hear of paragraphs pablo?
that day saturday when you were on your bike for a gazillion miles was a lovely day :;):
nearly every day when i look at the weather i look to the north west and NI and its raining
myself MSH and DDD live in the eastern region and its very dry
rain is rarely an issue for us
LLL

[mickg]

yeah ditto with the paragraph, it makes your eyes bleed trying to decipher it

the last 2 days in the north west it has lashed it down continuous all day without any breaks and is set to last the rest of the week plus 3 days partially lost last week where you cant get your work done, in all the time I have worked outside I have never known a wetter year than 2012 but I refuse to stay at home and we get done what we can

this is what we have to contend with in the Costa Del North West while you lucky lot south of Watford Gap bask in sweltering heat and endure hose pipe bans

with regards to the conversation we had on Saturday Tony and what you said it cost you to point that patio, £7 I think you said, I cant risk spending all day using conventional sand and cement to then have a heavy downpour at the end of the day what could wash it all away plus stain the paving which is why I have opted to use Marshalls Weatherpoint 365 on all my work

It's a lot more expensive than sand and cement but it means we can complete the work even if its raining

back on topic
since October 2008 I have only been ask twice to quote for permeable paving, I don't know any M2 figures of the volume of permeable paving installed within the domestic market but I would bet its not that high when compared to conventional block paving what can be installed using various methods but still conform to the current driveway legislation

[lutonlagerlout]

i agree mick,if i worked up your or pablos area i would use a different material
i worked with a brickie from bury before and he reckoned to lose a day a week on average over the year in that area

we probably get about 5-6 unworkable days per year
once i get my bonsai riddle i will develop the plastering sand a bit farther
maybe a touch of rapid set :;):
cheers LLL