Material pice rises for 2008 are crippling us ! - Rising fuel has put prices up...

[thegardensurgery]

Anyone noticed how much materials have gone up in price...bradstone.ect..timber decking..i put 7 quotes in last week and they all said too expensive on the materials and thats at cost to the customer !! so i think fuel costs affect us all round i have had to drop my labour prices to get a better balance so we get the work...well for 3 months anyway... and these are brand new houses !

[Dave_L]

Tarmac up £6/ton Jan '08, fuel costs etc - not good.

[Dave_L]

and thats at cost to the customer

So you don't make any money on your materials??

[mark39]

hi there ,
we have found this new year to be the quietist for the last five years price increases and the economy dont help especially with the gypo firms offering to beat any price ,
but what can you do this is down to the customers not doing their homework as usual they dont always look at what they are getting but we all know that if they want the cheapest price they will more than likely get ripped off by gypos ect some people just can not let a " bargin " go but we all know what they are left with
no money and a mess !!
what part of our glorious nation are you from !!
hope things pick up
mark..

[lutonlagerlout]

i priced to install a new back inlet gully for a lady last week. for the ac 400,bottle gully, gully surround,15 degree easy bend,4 bags of ballast,1 bag of dust and a concrete gully surround came to £72.15,add on a days money for 1 man and getting rid of the spoil and its costing £250 for a roddable gully!!
regarding prices, its the same for everyone so there is no problem really you just need to be careful to get quotes from BM's before you price jobs on last years prices
and garden surgery i know its hard mate but once you have given a quote ,unless you are in the mire, never drop it by one pence

we are not selling second hand cars,there is no play with quotes,
cheers LLL

[eazybarra man]

Manufacturers Increases on plastic pipes pending feb/march around 5-6%. due to raw material & transport costs
Check with merchants.
There is always someone, whether its a pikey or otherwise going to cut prices to get work.
Like LLL says, material costs are the same for everybody, unfortunately some customers dont realise this, and dont think about "SUSTAINABILITY". They want pay as little as possible and there garden to look good now, and dont seem to think about how their patio/drive/decking or whatever will look in 6 months to a years time.
Its the old story " You only get what you pay for" or as my grandfather used to say
"yae git fxxx all, fur fxxx all in this world son"
Also as LLL says, its not easy but dont drop your prices. If you do a good job for a fair price you will get the work and still be there when the price cutters are gone.

[dig dug dan]

the problem is, when people get quotes, they think its like getting a quote on a new car from different dealers. They are all quoting like for like.
A classic is when i quote for a wooden panel fence, I always quote 4" posts, min. 2ft in the ground and a gravel board and post caps.
Needless to say, when i don't get the job, and i look later to see it done, its 3" posts, no gravel board or post caps, and sometimes its metposts!!(i wish they were banned)
The reason the fence fell down was 3" posts, and they put the same ones back up again.
a fence i did 15 years ago when i first started is still upright, yet i have seen many 3" fence posts newer fallen by the wayside.
If people got like for like quotes, checked the contractors had things such as waste carriers licences, insurance etc, then its fair for everyone.

Oh and no offence to any builders on here, especially LLL as i know he is capable(i have seen his work), but it really annoys me the number of bodged fences i have seen put up by builders. If you want a house building, you don't ring up a landscaper do you? enough said

rant over!

[lutonlagerlout]

bang on dan,the times i have seen reputable builders put a couple of lads on a fence,and next thing they are cutting 9" off the bottom of the 8' posts to save on digging
another fave of mine is the clowns who put all the slotted posts in first with no panels,and the creme de la creme is the loon who dug the holes 600 deep then concreted metposts into the ground??????????
when i asked him why,he said when the 3" posts snap he can replace them easily
having said all that we had a nightmare on the patio job mentioned elsewhere the original builder had put the drain run 450 mm below the fence line,we had to diddle and fake it to avoid posts on top of the run,but the client is happy enough,although it looks cack to me but what can you do?
LLL



Edited By lutonlagerlout on 1201284454

[mark39]

hi there all ,
we have the same problem with driveways and patios there are companies we know of and seen for ourselves who only dig out and put crushed tarmac clippings in instead of type one and always seem to get away with it one month on from finnishing the drive supprise supprise dipps in the driveway !! at least one of these is on the br?tt approved traders scheme why dont their customers say something ?? i think certain customers seem so focussed on price and the earliest possible start date they dont look further than their noses they seem to of had there skulls totally cleansed of brain cells ..
another local firm exposed on tv rogue traders still getting loads of work still using the same name !!?? it beggers belief
o lord hear our prayer!!
cheers mark.. :O

[seanandruby]

The customers don't say anything because they are relying on the contractors experience to do a proper job. Joe bloggs doesn't know the difference between M O T, B A D, crush and run, or plannings. it needs an independent body for them to ring to oversee the work. but ....more expense, although it would be worth paying the extra few quid.

[flowjoe]

I think there would be more than a few extra quid involved.....

Can you imagine if say building control were to oversee driveway installations and they want to see three critical stages of the job before you move onto the next stage.

You ring tuesday for an inspection and they can`t make it until thursday, they tell you 11am inspection but turn up at 3pm, meanwhile your lads are kicking their heels.

We have it now with sewer connections & local authority inspections, so you have to cover your costs for any unforseen downtime.

Not so bad if you are on a large project and there are other works to drop onto but if your worked up until it is passed then you are snookered.

Our work is in the service industry and the works more often than not have to be done and fairly quickly, Mr & Mrs Public may find the increased charges prohibitive and either put off the new driveway or as already mentioned take their chances with the pikeys.



Edited By flowjoe on 1201381640

[seanandruby]

Didn't mean actual building control as such Flo. More like an advisory service to put the customer in the picture of materials to be used etc: know what you mean tho with building control keeping you waiting. i work on large contracts so my drains get passed off by the R E. he, or any engineer witness air tests etc. Had 6 manholes, a main run and 10 branches that were backfilled and concrete slab placed on top because waited 2 months for test equipment to arrive.Tested today and all passed I'm glad to say. you cant hold up steel fixers, chippies etc so pipes get backfilled regardless. you know what salt-glaze are like for testing up? ???

[flowjoe]

I know what you mean sean about testing new systems, we had real problems with a plastic system on an extension, it failed several tests due to the moulded joints on the junctions and bends as opposed to the rubber seals failing.

I used the BCO as an example as they already have national coverage at hand, around here you have to ring them before 10am to see if they will visit the same day (not unlike ringing the doctors surgery) so it is hit and miss.

So you would need a major organisation to oversee any one trade, which of course = £££

I don`t have the answer but i suspect we need both education for contractors and education for the public, which sites like this offer.

But how you bring it all together under one banner as a natinal approved body without major costs i do not know bearing in mind that the NHBC is supposed to do the same for new build properties, but in reality it is an insurance group that work on averages rather then inspecting each individual property.



Edited By flowjoe on 1201458795

[eazybarra man]

here are a couple of suggestions re prices, quality work etc.
1. Prices - paving expert members form a buying group and negotiate deals with merchant groups (better buying power). Independant merchants do this, i.e NMBS etc.
Could negotiate annual deal?
2. Have a paving expert "seal of approval" or something similar where customers know its quality workmanship etc.
May give edge when pricing work against cowboys/pikeys

[flowjoe]

I think most BMs are on the backfoot anyway when it comes to prices, look at the internet and you can undercut anybody, you just have to do your homework and haggle.

As fond of this site as i am and everything the Tony Mc stands for what percentage of the public know pavingexpert.com ?.

Its has been mentioned before to get somebody like Tony in whatever their trade, drainage, bricklaying, plumbing, landscaping ........... to come out and assess you work over several jobs would be prohibitive to the majority of contractors, and would mean jack s$%t to the majority of customers.

In my industry on the back of rogue traders etc there was a big drive backed by the commons no less, with a hand book on good practices for the drainage industry that approved contractors could sign up to.I know this because i read about it, ive never seen it, never been asked about it, but having said that ive only been in the trade 25 years or so.

No easy answer i`m afraid, just education which is freely available on quality sites like this



Edited By flowjoe on 1201462419