Paving job gone wrong

[mo-uk]

I employed a contractor to lay some basic 450 x 450 concrete slabs for me in my garden. I requested a full bed of mortar and we agreed a brush in resin pointing finish.

I have read this site a fair bit bit over the years so I know the basics on paving.

The guy has laid about 50% of the slabs - in particular he has done all the complex cut cuts so although 50% of slabs are down it is probably more like 60-70% of the time has been spent on the job.

Problem is that quite a few - almost a third of slabs have some form of movement. Some are rocking quite a lot whereas others just feel a bit loose. Some of them are rock hard (as they should be).

Observing him working I don't have much confidence as he seems to be rushing and the guy that is doing his mixing is shall we say, a bit dim. I have looked at the mixes on various days when they have dried and its pretty clear the mixes are not consistent. Some go hard whilst others are much more crumbly.

Having lifted the slabs up, he has done full beds but for whatever reason the slabs have not stuck to the bed. On some occasions though they are stuck so it must be down to the mix.

I have raised this with him and to be fair he has said he will re-lay any loose ones but the ones that are not moving A LOT he says will be sorted by the pointing.

I have explained that the resin is permeable and will let water in and will then cause slabs to come off when it rains and that resin is not a structural issues.

To be honest I'd rather he just stopped and I ripped everything up but he is saying to give hi ma chance to finish and nothing will be loose when he leaves as he will fix everything before he goes and no payment til I am happy.

My concern and what I think may happen is that when we get to the end of the job, slabs will still be loose and we are going to have an argument over how it is fixed (i.e lift some slabs or rip it all off/get gets no payment).

My actual question for you though is this - when he points it all in, will loose slabs be held in place by the resin for the short term?
The issue for me is that even if I know the slabs MAY or WILL move in the future, if it is all solid a day or two after the resin has gone in he will be demanding his payment.

Any views?

I know some will say just tell him to leave but it is a bit awkward in real life. I have told him by continuing on he does so at his own risk if the slabs move.

[dig dug dan]

What slabs is he laying? If they are conrete based, then he will need to make sure they are bedded on a wet mix. Semi dry will not work.
I suspect that some mixes have been too dry, and they have not adhered to the base which is why you are having this issue.
But, do give him a chance to rectify the problem first, he has said he will.
Relying on the pointing to fix loose slabs will not work either!

[mo-uk]

They are just cheap riven concrete slabs.

My concern is that he will not lift all the ones that need doing - its almost a third of the patio.

I think you are right that the base was not wet enough.

I also now just have underlying concerns about the longevity of the patio generally of course - it doesn't fill you with confidence when you have issues like this.

[Tony McC]

This seems to be a recurring theme: the vast majority of loose paving will NOT be rectified by the pointing. And if that pointing is a 1-part polymeric brush-in product, then there is absolutely buggerall chance of the pointing rectifying failures with the bedding - they are too soft; they don't fully bond to the paving; they degrade too easily over time.

I think I may need to write yet another FAQ......

[mo-uk]

I actually sent him a link your page Tony, lol

To be fair he has lifted and relaid a few slabs but there are still more to do and I don't know how many he will do

I am minded to just let him point it and then see the failures after pointing gone in

As I have never seen the resin stuff I wasn't sure how hard it initially goes and whether it could initially 'hold' the slabs for the first few weeks until people have caused more movement by walking on them.

[Tony McC]

The very good 2-part resin moratrs will support the loose paving for a time, but because there is a void in the bedding where the flag is not supported (hence the looseness/rocking) it *will* eventually 'give', a little at a time at first, but, as time progesses, it will get worse, and eventually, you end up back at square zero

[mo-uk]

Just to update this
He said the job was going fine and insisted on finishing and putting pointing in
I said I would wait 4 days to test the patio out before paying (a good decision on my part)
A couple of days later I did test it out and found around 20 movers and a few more that were hollow sound and clearly were going to move
Also not happy with the levels (got a bit extreme on the last slab) and the resin pointing was breaking up in some places due to movement

Email sent, argument ensued via email. I paid about 20% of the value of the job which to be fair to some extent covers some of the digging out he did

Overall I will suffer a loss as some slabs that have been cut will probably get wasted and I have to spend out on getting rid of all the old mortar

I have decided to have a crack myself now

[Tony McC]

Always wise to wait a *short* while before making final payment on any paving or landscaping project. Most decent contractors will not take umbrage at hanging-on for 4-7 days to get what's owed.