I've been following this wonderful site's instruction in the design & build of a circular (2.2m diameter) crazy paved patio using Victorian era Yorkstone salvaged (with permission!) from a skip across the road.
I'd like to sanity check (ho ho) my plan and have some questions about jointing.
As per the crazy paving section, I'm not using a sub base as it's just a light use patio. The ground here is quite sandy, well drained and stable. I don't have a tamper but will compact it the best I can.
I'm planning on 50mm bedding with 10:1 sharp sand and cement, semi-dry.
The Yorkstones vary in thickness but most are around 35-40mm.
It's going to be edged in two ways. Front (to grass) - edge laid reclaimed red and blue bricks on same bedding as the Yorkstone. At the rear, the same reclaimed red and blue bricks but laid on edge in a sawtooth pattern to form a raised barrier to the topsoil at the back, which is at a slightly higher level than the lawn.
Photo with a test layout below.
Questions:
Will I be fine without a sub-base?
50mm of 10:1 bedding sufficient? As I've slightly over dug the hole, might be more like 60-70mm in places once compacted.
Jointing - I want something black, was thinking about vdw 840+ Basalt. But reading the information PDF there were a couple of contra-indications. I've tried to keep the joints to ~20mm, but obviously there are inevitably some joints / areas much bigger than this eg ~40mm. vdw 840+ spec suggested 20mm max width.
Also the 840+ spec suggests bedding must be permeable. It's not clear from the Bedding page if 10:1 is permeable or not, my guess is probably not, due to the cement once it's gone off. Given the quantity of water, I'll be using feel like that could be a problem.
A recent comment of Tony's suggests one part polymerics are no longer recommended (like the 840+ ?). What's the best alternative?
The Yorkstone is well weathered and quite rough. I really don't fancy my chances with cement based wet grouting, can't help but feel it will end up very stained. I've not mortared anything on this scale before.
Should I wait for the bedding to go off completely before jointing?
And final questions, the brick edging - should I make the bedding deeper or think about concrete & haunching? Presumably I should do the edging first?
Have spoken with NCC Streetscape and decided to go with vdw 850. Going to skip the concrete for the edging, it's not being trafficked over at the back and between the stones and the grass at the front should be held in place. Hopefully!
Nice layout! It's not easy to get crazy paving to look so good, but by minbimising the jointing, your layout is pretty damned good!
If your sub-grade is sound, then the omission of a sub-base is of no immediate concern.
10:1 mix is reasonably permeable, as long a sit is definitey a coarse/grit/sharp sand used as the aggregate.
Please post a picture when you get it done - it looks fab!
I'd rather see those edgings concreted in - they will, no matter how hard you try, get knocked, bumped and pushed against, so better to secure them now.
Thanks! Took a wee while to layout, but love a good puzzle.
Definitely sharp sand.
Have been somewhat in denial about need to concrete in the edges! Glad you’ve pushed me over the, er, edge. Will use concrete - the sawtooth pattern felt very likely to shift whichever way I looked at it
Went pretty well. Ran out of vdw850 though - with just a few handfuls more needed. Drat. Will be on the phone pleading with Streetscape for a sample sized pack tomorrow!
Concreted in the brick edging, that was a good suggestion, would have wobbled all over the place otherwise.
Over dug the hole and mindlessly starting filling it with up to 150mm with 10:1 semidry bedding. Was hand mixing barrow after barrow load and eventually ran out of sand... on a Sunday. Homebase had decent ballast though and that. compacted down with an inverted sledgehammer, made the the rest of the job a whole lot easier and quicker.
Hope the different sub-bases and bedding depth don't result in different settlement. Feels incredibly solid at the moment.
Apply vdw850 was fun and very straight forward. Tonnes of water, lot's of squeegee and brushing to cope with the riven surface. Waited til the evening to apply, it starting going off after about 25-30 mins.
Inspired to have a go at re-laying the very wonky main patio now. Currently a bizarre mixture of beautiful blue pavers, two different sorts of concrete and modern cast slabs...
