Using the blocks to form a double stretcher course....

leaves you with big open joints, around 25mm (an inch) as shown above.

What about if you lay it as a soldier course?

Well, it's slightly better but you still have 20mm gaps - too wide for sand: too unsightly for mortar.

You could trim the blocks, of course....

...as you can see, you need to take 7.5mm off each edge, and with 82 blocks in this outer course alone, that's 164 cuts, assuming none go bad on you!

What I would do, is buy in a pre-made circle. There's the Marshalls Driveline circle - same 200x100 type of block, but as a kit and available in Charcoal or Red.

Or you could use the Tegula Drivesett circle for a real contrast, or even one of the riven flag type circles, laid on a full concrete bed, of course.

There's millions of options, but you really need to look at bringing in a kit-form circle or switching to smaller units, say 100x100mm to get the joint width down to an acceptable minimum.

If you want to post piccies, they need to be on your own server/webspace and then read the instructions in the HELP link opposite. Basically, you wrap the url in a pair of <img> tags. If you want to post them to me for uploading, send them to

Document M of the Building Regs makes provisions for ramped access to doorways, and there are now several methods of creating a ramp without compromising damp proof integrity. However, if your project involves a considerable area (say more than 3 linear metres) that will be less than 100mm below dpc, then an alternative strategy will be required.

The exact situation, the type of paving, the distance between dpc and paving, the total area, the falls....all these need to be considered before recommending a suitable strategy.

The threshold ramp - you could use a length of drainage composite (see Fin Drains page), or even a length of linear drain, but for a simple threshold to a private property, you could get away with tanking the brickwork to the level of the paving and/or covering with a damp-proof membrane.

Crazy paving! Ber-luddy hell - he's extracting urine, and in industrial quantities. Crazy paving is a very labour intensive job. It has to be laid on a full concrete bed if it's a driveway, and it's the sort of job even experienced contractors hate because it is so easy to bollox up. It's slow work; all the joints have to be properly pointed; it will crack; it's a bugger to keep levels accurate; it's the sort of job you get one-quarter of the way through and realise you HATE doing it.

If crazy paving is so wonderful, as this eejit suggests, how come you don't see every other driveway done with it instead of block paving?

Millstone - this is a very, very nice and very, very expensive imitation Yorkstone patio flag manufactured by a company called Stonemarket. It's around 35-40 quid per m² just to buy the flags. Then you have to lay them on concrete, because they're only 45mm thick and can't take the weight of a car. And then they have to be pointed....can you see a theme developing here? Your man is pizdov because you knocked back his quote!

And why not Marshalls? I'm not saying Brett Paving is not good stuff, but it's no better than Marshalls, who just happen to be the biggest manufacturer in the UK - so they must be doing summat right!

Brett have some nice products, but they are a small fish compared to Marshalls, as they serve only the South-east You should choose a block according to your taste and your wallet, not what this gobshite says!

I've not seen your drive, and I'm usually reluctant to recommend a particular product for any job I haven't seen, but I am 99% certain that block paving of one formor another would be fine on your driveway, as long as the slope is less than 1 in 2. If it's more than 1 in 2, then there are special laying structures that can be used, but block paving is still possible.

I reckon he's winding you up, hoping to see you struggle so you end up calling him in to finish off the job that's nearly killed you. Ask him what construction he recommends for a crazy paved driveway, and ask him if the guarantee from Stonemarket is the same as that for, say, Marshall's block paving. If he's not deliberately winding you up, then he's confusing his arse with his elbow!

If you need the rails in place as a guide when sand placing, then do so, but remove them before compacting and re-set them once you're ready to screed. If your sub-base is accurate, then you really shouldn't need the screed rails in place as a guide - best to leave them out altogether until they're needed for screeding.

Spread and compact your sand, then scutch out a channel for the screed rails in the sand (not necessarily all the way down to the sub-base). Set the screed rails in position, check for level and adjust as required.

Once the screed rails are set correctly, screed off the bedding layer, remove screed rails, tittivate the channel as required and lay them blocks!

Remember, not everyone uses 50x25mm screed rails - some are only 25x25 or 40x30.

Now, just how you determine the FPL at any given point is up to you. You could use an automatic level of some kind, or rely on boning rods, a taut string line, a laser, or whatever, but levels for ALL layers, are judged from FPL, not from the level of the preceding layer.

So, with the 25x25 screed rails, they might be 25mm above sub-base at one particular point, but they could be 30mm halfway along their length, and 35mm at the far end, if there was a 10mm difference in your sub-base. Remember that working tolerances decrease the closer you get to the paving layer. Your sub-grade can be +/- 50mm, and your sub-base +/- 10mm, the bedding +/-7mm, but your finished paving should always be +/- 3mm from FPL.

And less of the brown-nosing!

Well, if you opt for block paving, from what you've told me, I'd strongly recommend a 150-200mm sub-base, and using proper DTp1 rather than them owld scalpings, which can be highly variable in quality. You could, I s'pose, excavate, and then use the better stuff from the existing driveway as a capping layer, but make sure you have at least 100mm of well-compacted DTp1 on top of a good 50mm of the owld stuff.

I can't say this too often, but the biggest cause of settlement and ponding with block pavements is sub-standard sub-bases. It's a false economy to save a hundred quid or so on cheap, nasty "hardcore" rather than the proper stuff, especially if you're anticipating exceptional loads (for a domestic driveway).

So, 150-200mm sub-base, then your 35-50mm bedding layer of grit sand, and then a 60mm paver. There's no need to use an 80mm, not for the occasional tractor, but, if you have any other HGVs, such as a CH oil delivery tanker or the septic tank emptier, then it might be worth moving up to the 80mm block.

But what about blacktop? I'm wary about blacktop on a steepish gradient for the very reason you mention - icing in winter. You can get a 10mm wearing course that will give better grip, or you could have a hi-grip surface dressing added, but I don't think it would work out to be cost effective against a tumbled block paving such as the Priory/Woburn offerings.

Spec for bitmac would be, again, a 150-200mm sub-base, with a 65mm base course of 20mm dense and a 25mm wearing course of 10mm dense.

And then your grass pavers. These need to be laid on a free draining medium or they just turn to mud and gloop. You need a decent sub-base, with adequate drainage, so perhaps 150mm again, with a drainage composite if the ground is wet. You need a grit, not a sand, but a 4-6mm grit on which to lay the grass pavers, and then they need to be filled with a quality sand/grit/soil mix, not any owld topsoil you can dig out of a field.

To be honest, I think you need someone to look at the site and give you the benefit of their experience. You've a lot of factors to take into consideration, and, with the grass pavers, this is not a standard job, needing a good bit of branewerk before breaking the ground.

Sand doesn't compact or behave quite the same as granular sub-base material when loaded - it behaves something like a fluid, and it can move, slowly and imperceptibly, but it will move.

The best solution is to top up the sub-base, adding an extra 25-40mm (1" to 1.5" ) and compacting that, before placing the bedding sand.

The figure of 50mm for bedding sand really is a maximum. You can, occasionally and on light-use projects, stretch that to 60mm, but 75mm is just asking for trouble.

Stick with proper jointing sand. It's much, much cheaper and it does the job correctly. Leave GeoFix for rigid pavements.

It is not a weed barrier, as no weeds (with the exception of the really pernicious stuff like Japanese Knotweed ) would be able to penetrate the 200mm min construction thickness of a standard block pavement.

There's no construction problem in using Altira  - it's all a matter of aesthetics. I don't have any concrete paving in my garden because I think clay pavers are more natural looking and the mosses/grasses colonise them ina very organic sort of way, but then, I have what might be thought of as a 'cottage' style garden. In a modern garden, my paths and patio would look totally out of place.

So, you choose the paving to suit the property and the style of garden you have. If you like Altira, then go for the Altira. Personally, I think the Burnt Ochre (multi-brown) is more sympathetic to most gardens than the Brindle (multi-red) but again, it all depends on the type of garden and personal taste.

With curved paths, longitudinal stretcher bond (sometimes called running bond) looks superb, as it draws the eye along the arcing lines. Here's a pic of a path I laid about 7 years ago, back in the days when I could still work......

...this path was constructed using Ionica, which, at that time, was manufactured by BDC but they were subsequently bought out by RMC, who still produce this block today. Anyway, the Ionica is very similar to the Altira (and the TopPave Classico, which used to be Marley's ).

Enough of the history of CBPs in Britain - note how the blocks follow the curve, accentuating the arc and leading the eye around the corner, which is a favourite trick of all those arty-farty garden designers.

This path has never been cleaned or sealed, so you can see what a CBP path might look like a few years down the line. If you prefer the 'clean and tidy' look, then consider using a sealant.

Has that kettle boiled yet?  

Even more amazin': that path was laid by Mrs Taz and The Reichskinder while I was laid up after first losing the use of my back, so, there's really nothing to scare an apprentice. They laid the lot, about 15m², in a day, although, to be fair, the sub-base was already in place from the previous, nasty concrete blocks path, and so it was simply a matter of wazzing out the owld rubbish and laying the new little beauties.

Two of the Reichskinder were splitting the cobbles and arguing, while Mrs Taz screeded the bedding and laid them in place as I groaned and moaned from my sick bed (well, sick recliner, to be honest!)

There's a really crap photo of it on my garden website which you can access by clicking here but tomorrow, I'll haul meself downstairs and take a better one on the digicam and post it to this thread.

....for advice on how to post pictures, click the Help link and then read the bit on "Ikoncode". If you can't upload the pictures direct, send them to me by email and I'll upload them for you.

If there is any doubt about the integrity of the sub-grade, then use a separation membrane (summat like Terram 1000 ) that will prevent the sub-base disappearing into the earth.

When it comes to laying your soldier course edgings, it's up to you how you do it. I prefer to lay the sub-base, then scratch out a 'channel' for the concrete bedding, but others prefer to lay directly over the sub-grade. This is shown diagrammatically on the Laying Flexible Block Paving page, in the 'Kerbs' section.

Colours and design details come down to personal taste. The most popular colour scheme in and around Wiggin is the charcoal edging with a brindle body. Herringbone is the best pattern for a driveway, as it gives a full interlock, and a 45 herringbone looks more professional that a 90 herringbone, even though it is no stronger.

Placing circles or diamonds is best done after laying the main body of paving - see the Detailing page.

For your sub-base, 9-10 tonnes should be about right, just depending on how accurate you are with depth of dig and the final profile of the driveway. You'd be better off getting a 10T load delivered in bulk, rather than buying it in agg bags. Keyline at Hindley, Builder Centre at Coppull or Jewson at Pemberton should be able to arrange what is known as a 'direct delivery'.
Any surplus can be added to concrete haunching for kerbs/edgings or even binned, but it usually works out much cheaper to buy this way.

I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing your progress, or lack thereof!

Can you give a fuller description?

For block layers in Wiggin, this company emailed me earlier this week...

DKG Paving - 01942 706690

The only firm I do know in the area from when I was contracting is GC Construction - 01942 492288. They've been doing the block paving for quite a few years and generally do a very good job.

Block suppliers in Wigan - just about anywhere. Jewsons, Keyline, Travis Perkins, Builder Centre ... they all charge more or less the same price to diy'ers, but it's worth 'phoning around to see who's the cheapest.

As for the ring beam problem, rising 50mm over a metre (2" in 3 feet) is not a problem for block paving - you'll hardly notice. Have you considered slicing a few of the blocks into 'slips' so that you can maintain the correct level?

Aren't you glad you asked?

If it's the Driveline you're going with, then opt for the Brindle brick for the body of your driveway, with the charcoal for the edge coldier courses. That is the most popular colour scheme in N.Western England. With the Brindle being a multi-colour block, it doesn't show up any minor stains or marks quite as badly as a mono-colour, such as red, and so it's a much better choice for driveways.

Have you got all the sub-base finished now?

Edgings and soldiers - lay on concrete, haunch with concrete. Soldier joinbts can be sanded, kerb joints can be butt-jointed but I reckon they always look better pointed in a complementary mortar. If you;re using the red KS kerbs, use a red coloured mortar.

Once your soldiers are in place, you can use them to screed off, and the rest is a relative doddle. Was there an existing sub-base underneath that old bitmac you had on the drive?

Can you describe it or send me a picture?

....that's an Inspection Chamber (IC ) and the lid, which is Ductile Iron, sits inside a frame which, in turn sits atop the chamber sections. There's an illustration of this type of IC on the Manholes page.

You need to lift off the cover and frame and then re-set them on a bed of mortar or bricks and mortar, and then tap down to the correct level.
With this drive being on a slope, and you being an amateur, I reckon the easiest way would be for you to pave all around the IC and then set the cover to a level of approximately 8-10mm below the level of the uncompacted paving. This will enable you to get the 'front' end and the 'back' end set to level more accurately than relying on using string lines or straightedges from the existing kerbs.

By how much do you reckon you'll need to lift the cover and frame? Up to 25mm can be done on a simple bed of mortar, but anything more than that will require either slate, broken flags or brickwork to help carry the load.

You also need to think about the detailing around the cover once it's set to the correct level. Have you looked at the Detailing page? That's gives an illustration of the various ways in which you can detail the paving around an IC cover such as this.

Progress to date....

Take it easy around the cover - you can run the plate right up to the detailing, but try not to run over the cover at this stage as it might just rattle loose the bedding mortar.

39m² - you'll need around 4 Tonnes of the grit sand, and then around 5 x 40kg bags of the jointing sand for when you've done.

A splitter is better for concrete blocks, but many diy'ers seem to prefer a cut-off saw, even though it is incredibly dusty, it's noisy, more expensive, more back-breaking and, 12 months down the line, you'll not be able to tell whether the cuts are split or sawn!

What do other diy'ers feel? Are you happier with splitters or with cut-off saws?

As for the one broken block, just flick it out with two trowels, as shown on the Repair page, and put in a new block. Sprinkle a handful of jointing sand around it, and leave it be. You'll need to top up the jointing sand for the whole drive in 6-8 weeks, so check it again then, and re-do the Keybond if you really think it's necessary.

It may be, as I said, a change of screed, but it could be something more complex, such as a patch of over-thick blocks, or a big lump in the sub-base that isn't compacting as much as the surrounding area.

Run the plate over it a half-dozen times and see if that 'irons it out', but don't go mad with the plate or you risk damaging the blocks. If you have a weighty clonker or a mall, that can be used to 'persuade' the high blocks down to level, but if none of this works, then it's simply a matter of lifting the blocks in the high spot, and the immediately surrounding area, re-screeding the bed, and re-laying the blocks.

That's the beauty of block paving (and other elemental pavings ) - if you make a mistake, it's so easy to put it right!

Longer term, you might want to consider applying a sealant. This will prevent the mosses and algae establishing themselves quite so freely, and will keep the jointing sand in place when you do decide to give the paving a power wash. If a sealant isn't to your taste, and not everyone does appreciate the gloss or semi-gloss finish, then keep the power wash lance to a shallow angle when washing down and never aim directly at the joints. There are joint stabilising fluids that are considered in the Jointing and Pointing pages, and these will help keep the sand in place if you decide against using a sealant.

Good to see you're back in der Pool and ready to get stuck in to the work again, though!

Tightest radius for a path - I suppose you mean to use 200x100 blocks, laid 100mm wide. If so, and if we are willing to accept joints up to 10mm, then each block can be rotated by approx 4 degrees, which gives a radius of approx 2.9m.

Once the radius comes down to 1.7m, though, the joint width opens to 16mm, as shown in the drawing below. I've allowed for a 3mm joint at the 'tight' end of the joint, and there will be some variation on site, but generally, any curve faster than 3m radius needs to have at least some of the blocks taper cut.

Lay the soldier edge course along the channel grating, as you said.

Set a brick on a bed of sand just beyond the end each side run, in a roughly orthogonal position. Don't worry about level at this point, although you can, if you wish, set the top of the brick to the projected level.

Set up string lines stretched from each end of the channel course over the top of the temporary bricks, and then use the 3-4-5 triangle method to check for accuracy. Once the sting lines are correctly positioned, they can be weighted in place behind the temp bricks, to generate the required tension, and then simply lay the blocks.

You can use a straight-edged timber to check the level and the alignment and then piece-in the stop end.

Another option that we use in situations where it's impossible to drive in road pins, is to use a decking sheet or timber baulks set just outside the working area, and then knock in nails to act a 'mini road pins'. The string line can be stretched over another piece of timber to give correct level and alignment and then fastened to the nail for anchorage. Remember to weigh down the decking sheet/timber baulk if there's any chance of the tension from the string line causing it to shift during the work.

Does that make sense?

I don't envy you having to reduce dig that ground to get it down to formation level. What a way to spend the Bank Holiday!

I've just had a request from a firm in Maldon - they're looking for block layers, if you're interested in a new career!

VACANCY DETAILS
Blockpavers wanted
Maldon Company require block pavers for immediate start.
Previous experience an advantage.
Tel: 01621 855965

There's more about the use of membranes on the Geo-Sheets page.

I can't understand why a 'liner' or a membrane would be used between the sub-base and the bedding layer in the first place - if a membrane is to be used, it is placed over the sub-grade and beneath the sub-base.

There's a definite whiff of bovine excrement about this. Call them and ask for their reasoning.

Weeds tend not to grow through block paving - they settle into the sand joints and grow into the paving, and no membrane can prevent this. For that, you need a sealant or joint stabilising compound.

I still think they're trying to baffle you with science. There is absolutely no way a membrane between the sub-base and bedding layer will prevent weeds colonising the surface of the paving, or prevent the sub-base being contaminated by sub-grade pumping.

The way they have proposed to use a membrane is a total waste of money. Have they given a type of membrane, or a brand name?

Using an impermeable sheet in this manner means the bedding layer cannot drain, so it becomes saturated, and starts to behave like a fluid, with the blocks floating on the surface. In next to no time, the whole pavement will have rutted, blocks will have spalled, and the jointing sand will start to 'pump', ie, be forced out of the paving.

They've no idea, have they? Send 'em packing!

For the perimeter Soldier courses, I always prefer to lay them on a lean-mix bed of semi-dry concrete, say 10:1, as that ensures they aren't dislodged while laying the rest of the paving. Where they're up against an existing wall, there's no need to haunch, obviously, but they will need to be haunched at any free edges.

Looking forward to the piccies, and don't fret; you can't go wrong with the Drivesett - it's one of my top 3 pavings in the UK.

When it comes to laying, screed off the entire area, find your way back to the house/garage by walking on the soldiers, then start placing the actual paving from the doorway, and gradually work your way out.

There's a thousand and one ways of connecting linear drains to existing. With there being an existing pick-up point at the corner of the garage, then a simple outfall connection unit is probably the best way, but it depends on the type of Linear Drain you use. Some don't have outfall units, so you'd need to cut out a hole in the base of the channel, and bed this on mortar directly over the existing pipe, once you've removed the existing hopper or gully and fettled the pipework accordingly.

What's there at the moment? Can you describe or send in a piccie?

Good luck with the digging - I'm off for a long weekend in the country.

Your order of operations is basically correct, but I'd try to make sure that the shallow drain is bridge by a larger flag and doesn't have a joint directly over it or one of the smaller flags. Lay the flags on the grit sand/cement bedding; no need for a full mortar bed if you're using a semi-dry grit sand/cement.

Have you thought about what type of flags you'd go for?

Marshalls flags - depends on the look you're after. I really like the Perfecta flags for patios, but you might be after, say, a riven type or summat more decorative. Have you seen one you fancy?

With the bedding, there's usually sufficient moisture in the sand to initiate setting of the cement, so it's a simple matter of adding the cement and stirring it in. You can mix it all in one go and then spread it out as required, in which case you should mix 1 x 25kg bag of cement with 6 x 40kg bags of grit sand, or, if you're butying in bulk agg-bags, then it's 4 x 25kg bags of cement to each agg bag of grit sand.

If you're mixing in cement after spreading the sand, then, assuming the sand is around 50mm deep, each 25kg bag of cement should cover 3 to 4 m².

You only need to dampen it down if the sand is very dry, and then, the best way is to spray it lightly with a hose. You don't want it sopping wet, just damp enough so that it clumps together when squeezed in your fist.

If the rotavator is breaking up the ground, then it doesn't qualify as 'very hard' in my book. Very Hard Ground needs a mattock or a crowbar, and that's assuming there's no JCB available!

Marshalls' DIY advice is basically wrong. Mortar bedding is more time-consuming, it's messier, it uses more cement than is actually required, it makes adjacent flags 'float' and shift from finished level when laying, it's a nightmare if any units need remedial work.....but, it makes the job seem easy in the catalogues and brochures.

Cement mortar bedding is not an accepted practice for site works, so I fail to see why it's ok for patios. Use a coarse sand bed or a semi-dry 10:1 grit sand cement bed - leave Mortar bedding for the Blue Peter School of Flagging!

There are two common 'deposits' on new concrete block paving that can make the colour look wishy-washy.

The first is soap oil residue. This is not seen all that often, but is more prevalent during the summer. Soap Oil is the vernacular for Mould Release Agent and it's used to line the moulds used in the manufacture of the blocks to prevent the concrete 'sticking', so that, when they are pressed out from the moulds, the blocks are perfect and intact. Soap Oil is water soluble and will disappear after a few showers of rain, that's why I say it's more commonly seen during the summer, when we can go for, oh..., hours without any rain!

The second common agent of discolouration is efflorescence and this is a natural phenomenon with all high-quality concrete products. It comes about because of the ongoing reaction between the lime in the cement, the rest of the aggregates, atmospheric humidity and the air itself. It can look like a white power or dust on the surface of the paving, often more pronounced at the edges. Again, it's a temporary non-critical phenomenon and should disappear in under 6 months.

If it's like that shown above, it will eventually vanish. If it's not, then you need to speak with the contractor and get them to write into their guarantee that, if this phenomenon is still visible in, say, next April, then they'll replace the affected blocks as part of their defects liability.

Cheaper, acrylic sealants often need re-doing every 12-18 months, but the latest research from Resiblock is indicating a lifespan of at least a decade, and possibly twice that. So, although it might be as much as twice the purchase cost of the cheapest DIY Shed sealant, when costed out over a reasonable term, it's actually much more cost effective, and undoubtedly saves on labour in the long run.

I should state that I have no connection with Resiblock. They don't pay me to say this, nor do I get any freebies - it's just my opinion, formed over years of experience and reading.