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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:32 pm
by Pablo
Hi fellas, Does anyone have a difinative answer to the situation I'm sure many of us are facing at the moment with regards the snow and employees rights to pay. I've spoken to several folk and search various sites and no two answers have been the same. Even labour relations and CAB aren't on the same songsheet. So far I've resisted paying for down days but I have helped them with holiday pay and brought forward next years so they can use it now. I'm going to hit day 10 this month if I can't work monday and if I have to pay them full pay and backdate for november to I'll go under. How is everyone else coping I stupidly don't have a weather clause in their contracts. I have read that if it's custom and normal practice for work to stop during bad weather then payment is not due. So much advice assumes that that your place of work is an office and not a site that terminology etc doesn't have relevance. There must be specific laws for our situation because it bears no similarity to others where down days are measured in single days and not weeks.
Cheers.
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:07 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
its a hard to give an answer .where i worked last ,we got sent home with full pay for four days.but that was a massive company with millions in bank. how many men do you employ . havent the men made you money over the year . Meaning if you went in with the approach , i can pay you for a day or two whilst the bad weathers here but thats it ,i will go bang otherwise .maybe even in the future make them save so many days holiday that they have two weeks shutdown at xmas as most firms do .
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:55 pm
by lutonlagerlout
no work ,no pay with us
but they are self employed and use their own vehicles to get to work
we had 5 on the cards at one point and with all the various statutory this and that you can only pay them peanuts,
most lads would rather 25% more money every week ,but no work no pay ,if 1 bloke is off its affects us
LLL
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:00 pm
by rab1
We do temporary lay offs. IE, the lads sit in the house and receive £20 per day for the privilege or they can use their holidays up.
Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:32 pm
by pickwell paving
just been looking at this, 1 website I looked on says you have to make a guaranteed payment for every day the employee would normally work and to find out the amount you multiply the amount of hours usually worked in a day by the hourly rate, it also says that there is an upper limit of £21.20 per day reveiwed on the 1st Feb every year But like you say its an absolute minefield I don't understand it all there are exemptions for this and that and I don't think anybody has thought about people like us not been able to work for weeks on end 
Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:00 pm
by Pablo
My point exactly I'm just worried that what I do and what the law states are 2 different things and it could come back and bite me. Does anyone have a difinative answer on tis and what is covered by the words custom and practice. The most detailed info I found was on the Labour relations site and the least was on the governments and CAB sites which surprised me.
Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:07 pm
by lutonlagerlout
we went over this last time pablo,
i think you just have to communicate,most working men dont expect to be paid for sitting at home
it would be nice, but if this lasts 6 weeks then we would all go pop then they would have no job at all
if anything its better now than after xmas
so much for global warming eh?
LLL
Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:41 pm
by Pablo
Sorry Tony but we haven't been over this already I'm looking for the definative answer not what people expect because I'm getting grief and they're wanting paid. If you were to go by what the law says then unless the contract states otherwise they are entitled to full pay regardless of how long it is. And lay off's aren't legal either because you need to give notice and you can't do that if one day it's fine and the next you can't work that's why I'm trying to nail down this custom and practice term because it's my and most others only possible legal loophole.
It's illegal to force someone to use holiday pay to cover a disruption day and even if I don't have a penny to my name a court will find in their favour and award them accordingly. The compo culture over here is way worse than the mainland so stuff like this is very serious.
Cheers
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:29 am
by lutonlagerlout
you need legal advice mate
if your men are on the cards then you are probably stuffed
everyone who works for us now is a subbie
on the cards a brickie would get £100 per day as a subbie he gets £130 a day (todays rates) but he has to sort out his own downtime
when this situation was last discussed i thought it was over lack of work , I would never ever employ anyone on the cards again ,total minefield and 1 dodgy employee can sink a small business
good luck
LLL
Edited By lutonlagerlout on 1292718564
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:00 am
by seanandruby
It depends what is written in your employees contract of work and length of time with your company. At least £21.20 a day should be paid to them.
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:48 am
by haggistini
phew i find it hard enough to write up a contract for works and i am considering taking on a couple of men i think ill do the subbie thing and pay for their own liabillity insurance and spred the cost over terms and deduct it form the rate?
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:33 am
by lutonlagerlout
we still pay public liability etc. but the cost of insurance for weather related lack of work is too high to make it worthwhile
as long as the men can supply a s CIS number you just deduct them 20% at source,they sort their own stamp out
I know the revenue wants everyone on the cards ,but with prices as tight as they are no one wants to work for peanuts on the cards
LLL
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:40 am
by Pablo
I wanted to do the CIS thing but they can only be on your books 6 months of the year and can't wear uniforms or drive liveried vans. They're classed as employees if you do although few abide by those rules.
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:03 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i think as long as they invoice you and use their own vehicles its ok
its all very sticky i know
LLL
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:10 pm
by msh paving
Pablo wrote:I wanted to do the CIS thing but they can only be on your books 6 months of the year and can't wear uniforms or drive liveried vans. They're classed as employees if you do although few abide by those rules.
I think your taking the uniform and liveried van to the extream there pablo,is the tax man going to follow your van,as for uniform sell the men the clothing no problem then MSH 