Being in the right place at the right time - Large order in tile clearance warehouse

[Ted]

So I am building a house in Luanda, Angola; a country that was colonised by the Portuguese who themselves are keen tilers. As Angola is hot and dusty, people do not want carpet in their houses and as the Portuguese taught Angolans how to build houses, tiles are very popular as a flooring material throughout a house. Meanwhile, here in England, people really only tile bathrooms and kitchens so orders in tile shops here are normaly just for between 10 and 30m2 I would imagine.

So the other day, I walked in to Tile Clearance Warehouse, which seems to be a chain that sells tiles and some lines IMO are very good value.

A young lad asks if he can help me so I explain I want to buy a few tiles and he responds that he hopes that he can help me...

I pointed to a tile and said "I want 110m2 of that". He looks gobsmacked and asks if I have my measurements right. I explain that I have to tile a whole ground floor of a house. "Oh right" he responds. "And that tile there, I want 110m2 of that as I have to tile the upstairs," I said. "Big house," he replies. To which I responded that it was a good size. "And that cheap tile there at £5.95, I want 200m2 of that," I said. "200m2, why do you need that much?" he goes, so I reply that I have to tile the flat roof/barbecue area on top of the house as well as the floors in the servant's quarters. I then bought wall tiles (all with listellos and contrasting colours) for nine bathrooms (each one different), two kitchens, a laundry and what Angolans call a dispenser (a sort of larder). I also bought a load of trim and all grout.

The bill came in at just over GBP9000 so I paid and he said it would be ready in a week or two. He said the company would have difficulty delivering to me as the courier they use can only carry one tonne at a time and it would cost a lot having him go back and forth (I can't remember how much). So I asked him to calculate how much it would all weigh so I could hire a suitable truck. They weigh just over 12 tonne and are approx 700m2...

So I found a company that claimed to have a truck (and driver) that could carry 12 tonne and had a tail lift and sent it down there the other day. When the lorry got to my yard I noticed it had no tail lift and I had a chat with the driver after we had unloaded using a telehandler and he told me they had problems at Tile Warehouse as there was no forklift so they couldn't load the tiles on to the truck. Fortunately the builder's merchant across the road came to the rescue with one of theirs. But while he was waiting for the forklift he had a chat with a couple of lads at Tile Warehouse.

Apparently Tile Warehouse pay individual commissions to each employee on the sales they put through the till. Apparently I spent more in one hour than that branch of Tile Warehouse turns over in a typical week, so the young lad did well on his commission that week! But to rub it in, my order was so large that it caused chaos in the shop as they did not have space in the shop for all these tiles that arrived from all over the place and the order was so large that the other lads all had to help load 12 tonnes of tiles on to pallets, but they didn't get a penny of the commission as it all went to the one lad.

I imagine they will be fighting to serve me when I next go back!

[lutonlagerlout]

they will all be like dogs with 2 tails when they see you next ted
are you importing brick as well?
LLL

[Ted]

No, really heavy materials such as blocks, steel and cement are protected industries and you need a special licence to import these items which I can't get or would struggle to.

The tax on tiles has gone up hugely as Angola now has a new tile manufacturing plant so the tax has gone up to persuade people to use these Angolan tiles.

However, the tiles available are all slightly different sizes so take ages to lay and you have to sort them out in to piles of more or less equal size to do a decent job and even then it looks pretty crap.

It just isn't cost effective and is no good for a high end house anyway, as a rich Angolan wants Spanish, Portuguese or Italian imported tiles anyway. But to import blocks would just cost too much - how many containers would one need?

We don't use brick out there. Almost all houses are made of blocks and rendered - a bit like Portugal/southern Europe. I have seen one or two timber framed and clad houses imported from Brazil though.

I am only importing finishing materials (electrics (plugs, switches, extractor fans, appliances), tiles, doors, windows, ironmongery, kitchen, bathroom suites, taps, ceiling, coving, skirtings, manhole covers, drains, etc) and some tools.

If something can not be seen such as soil pipe, I will just use local stuff (very cheap stuff imported from Portugal or China)... So my British drains will connect to Angolan (imported) pipe... British pipe such as that Osma stuff is infinitely higher quality but is more expensive than the imported stuff in Angola... so as it can't be seen and I don't have to abide by British standards it does not make sense to use it as no other developers out there are... in this build that I am doing, everything that is visual is imported (excluding render, door frames and architraves and paint) so it should look very impressive to an Angolan and very bling - which is what they like!

One day I will use Osma pipe out there though, I hope, and then I really will build by far the best houses in the whole of Angola!

[rab1]

I`m guessing you plan to sell this build on then?. ???

[Ted]

I`m guessing you plan to sell this build on then?. ???

Exactly!

It costs GBP4050 to ship a container to Angola and about a further GBP1000 for a sideloader to collect the container from my yard in the UK and take it to the port. Then there is insurance on top of this.

Then there is an average 30% tax on the products imported (I get my UK paid VAT back) and then the costs of further haulage in Angola.

Whilst it wouldn't break the bank to buy things like Osma pipe, a bit of insulation etc, I would need an additional container and a 20' one is about GBP2300 to ship out and sideloader costs in the UK would be similar to a 40' container so it then becomes very expensive drainage and insulation!

Hopefully, the next container I ship out will have space for luxuries like Osma pipe, insulation etc as there wil be less tools etc in it, but for this build, the buyer wil have to make do with Angolan stuff where he can't see the building material!

[London Stone Paving]

Ted

£4050 seems like a lot of money to ship a container from UK to Angola. We pay significantly less to ship cans from China and India. Although I would imagine the service from UK to Angola is a lot less frequent than China & India to UK

[Ted]

Angola is expensive - there is always a queue of ships waiting to get into the port.

Sometimes the congestion causes them to sit out at sea waiting for a slot to dock for as much as a month.

If you drink in one of Luanda's beach bars the whole horizon is dotted with vessels waiting to dock.

You can ship from the UK to Oz for a lot less than you can Angola. Also, most UK shipping agents won't deal with Angola as language barriers, bureaucracy etc make it a tricky desitnation to ship to.

[lutonlagerlout]

for bureaucracy read baksheesh
LLL :;):

[GB_Groundworks]

All those containers of stolen plant waiting to land haha

We use cdt massive tile company be as cheap as those diy places on big orders and they have a fleet of arctics to deliver with.

[Ted]

All those containers of stolen plant waiting to land haha

We use cdt massive tile company be as cheap as those diy places on big orders and they have a fleet of arctics to deliver with.

Thanks for the link GB, I'll consider them next time.

One firm I've dealt with that I'll give a big recommendation to is City Electrical Factors (CEF). When I went into most electrical merchants, they were really unhelpful when I asked for European/"Schucko" sockets and Portuguese type wiring.

But CEF researched it and came up with the goods. I guess none of you need Schucko sockets or Portuguese wire though!

[GB_Groundworks]

We used to use CEF in a big way. So much so they took all our lads to aintree in a box full hospitality job. But then phantom stuff started appearing on invoices etc and went tits up so we switched to edmundsons electrical.

It's CTD as in ceramic tile distribution iPad auto corrected it

http://www.ctdtiles.co.uk/

[London Stone Paving]

Angola is expensive - there is always a queue of ships waiting to get into the port.

Sometimes the congestion causes them to sit out at sea waiting for a slot to dock for as much as a month.

If you drink in one of Luanda's beach bars the whole horizon is dotted with vessels waiting to dock.

You can ship from the UK to Oz for a lot less than you can Angola. Also, most UK shipping agents won't deal with Angola as language barriers, bureaucracy etc make it a tricky desitnation to ship to.

I dont like the sound of that Ted. I can see now why the freight costs are so high.

Whats it like in general operating in Angola?

[Ted]

Angola is expensive - there is always a queue of ships waiting to get into the port.

Sometimes the congestion causes them to sit out at sea waiting for a slot to dock for as much as a month.

If you drink in one of Luanda's beach bars the whole horizon is dotted with vessels waiting to dock.

You can ship from the UK to Oz for a lot less than you can Angola. Also, most UK shipping agents won't deal with Angola as language barriers, bureaucracy etc make it a tricky desitnation to ship to.

I dont like the sound of that Ted. I can see now why the freight costs are so high.

Whats it like in general operating in Angola?

It is a tricky environment.

The general standard of tradesman is poor and they need a lot of training and constant supervision, although I do have one man in particular who is an exception and would be up to speed to work as a brickie/tiler over here if he could get a visa and he has always been like this, even when he used to work for himself before he worked for us. A born natural!

Materials are hard to come by; basics such as sand, gravel, cement and blocks are readily available but if you start doing renovations and need say a pane of 3mm glass, 2mm tile spacers or a particular ridge tile, you will spend half a week looking for it and stil may never find it. Renovations are hard to do well out there! New build is easier as you can plan everything better.

Shops generally don't answer the phone or won't help you unless you go and see them face to face. The traffic congestion is horrific - so much that I don't know how British people can complain about congestion here as, even in London, you don't really have congestion by Luanda standards. (I must admit I do still get annoyed when in a jam over here!).

Life over there as an expat is hard. Continual power cuts (you need a big genset at home), difficulties in purchasing foods that you take for granted such as spices, vegetables etc, high cost of living, make it a hard plave to live, along with the bad traffic.

However, I don't think there is anywhere else in the world where you can make such a profit by doing good building work - there are few good builders out there and you can charge a huge premium for doing good work. Mind you, many of the bad builders out there still make a good living too!

[lutonlagerlout]

you are not really selling the dream there ted :;):
i went to africa once,never again for me personally,not my cup of tea
LLL

[London Stone Paving]

Hats of to you Ted for carving yourself a niche out there. Do you get much need for stone out there?