Page 1 of 1
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:03 pm
by Middleton Farmer
Wanted to get some opinions in a hurry as to what to do next - national supplier of aggregates (T____c) delivers not 1, not 2 but 3 loads of "Type 1" that is out of spec (insufficient fines, loads and I mean 20%+ over 63mm and certainly nowhere near 75% through 31.5mm grid).
Complain to builder's merchant where my account is, national supplier "technician" comes out and tries to blag his way round it, looks at the 2 loads delivered and agrees "it's not quite right but..." send him off with a very clear message. Load 1 is pathetic, Load 2 still out of spec but more fines, Load 3 (after complaint) is still iffy, looks like two bucket loads of decent stuff shoved on the back at the last minute.
Have info that says there are a number of complaints and rejections from other clients; told that they are not crushing it properly - understand that they're shifting to a new crushing company in 3 weeks time; sales rep is coming tomorrow together with builder's merchant to look at the problem.
Concern is that the stuff will not bind, will open up with first rain and I'll need to rip up what we've rollered down and start again.
What options do I have for remedial action? Will adding "dust" and vibrating/rolling it in work? Who should pay for the extra hours labour for fixing it? 
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:38 am
by bobbi o
depending on stock levels they will sometimes mix the type one from various piles by loading shovel,obviously if its not done correctly their can be a lack of fines. its easily sorted by blinding it with fine scalpings or similair
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:23 am
by lutonlagerlout
i have never come across this before,mind you i recall you are paying rock bottom prices
we either get pink or purple type 1 and it can always be wacked down to get a smooth finish
I suppose of its not what was ordered then you could get money off or a refund
whole scenario sounds weird
LLL
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:40 am
by GB_Groundworks
we get this from our quarry
they have stock piles of single size 20mm, 40mm, sub 4mm fines they take a bucket full of each and tip into wagon and thats it.
we also request extra dust in our loads because there is never enough and you get marbleing or our last blinding load with get 20mm-dust a lot easier to rake by hand.
you could blind off with a loaf of dust or 20mm-dust and consolidate if you get it on thin enough,like below 40mm it will be fine and a good consolidation should see you right. i'd demand that they provide the stone or dust free and suffer the labour yourself.
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:23 pm
by Pablo
GB_Groundworks wrote:you could blind off with a loaf of dust
Is that a brown or white one Giles or perhaps it's a multi grain.
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:33 pm
by GB_Groundworks
a seeded bloomer always works best haha
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:26 pm
by Tony McC
The company are contracted to provide Type 1. If the work was shown to fail because the sub-base did not meet the spec, then they would be liable for providing materials that were not what was stated on the order or the delivery docket.
Now, if the sub-base happened to be beneath a very expensive pavement, they'd be faced with the total reinstatement costs for the sub-base, base, laying course, pavers, and possibly kerbs and ironwork too!
I'd want a written statement from them that they accepted all liability because this would NOT be going onto my insurance policy, and I'd be looking for a cancellation of any bills for sub-standard material and probably an administration fee.
All too often, suppliers are providing lower costs by fiddling the spec. As a contractor I want to know that when a specify such-a-product, I get what I specify and not some cheap sub-standard alternative. Hitting their pockets is often the only way to get that message through. 
Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:15 am
by Middleton Farmer
Thanks guys, the situation is not over yet.
I got a 16 tonne load of "dust" delivered FOC and was told that it would be relatively straightforward to blind it in with the 140 vibrating roller that we had on hire. 4 hours later the dust is spread, the surface is starting to come together and the worst of the areas filled with the distinctly over-size (no way would it go through a 63mm sieve never mind 75% through a 31.5mm one) stone is starting to feel as though it is going to be alright...
Then we notice that the departing cars and contractor vans are all leaving distinct tire-marks in the dust layer - so we scrape it off and find that only a tiny proportion has infiltrated the voids. So we have to rake the surface with the digger bucket and start again.
Of the total 6 "Type 1" loads we received three were most definitely way out-of-spec, over-size and lack of fines. Two others were highly suspect and only the final one came anywhere near our normal quarry standard.
Not to mention the Tarmac technician visit who tried to pass us off with BS - "our type 1 is a different spec" - and the Tarmac sales rep who advised that the "blinding with dust would be the best solution".
We've had to work Saturday and again tomorrow to fix their screw-ups and my builder's merchant will be getting a visit on Monday and Tarmac will be getting another phone call and suggestion that they bring a civil engineer with them to inspect the road - thank God it's only a farm road and not the motorway, though I wonder what they are supplying them as "type 1"!
Interestingly enough we heard that other customers had also complained about it being ****e and apparently the crusher company is being fired and the old one brought back in 2 weeks time.
Thoroughly hacked off... if any Tarmac staff are reading this, suggest they come and visit to learn how not to cut costs at the quarry and how not to treat customers.
P.S. On pricing, we were buying 120 tonnes immediately with the intention of a further 120 tonnes of scalpings to go on top once the warmer weather arrives and we could hope that it would bind together. Ultimate plan is a new asphalt surface once construction is fully complete.
