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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:43 pm
by speedycar
Hi,
I am a Parish Councillor dealing with the creation of a new allotments site on a field and there is a requirement to provide some sort of firm surface for car parking that is low cost, free draining and solid enough bearing in mind it will not be subject to heavy traffic. Its appearance needs to be sympathetic to a countryside setting. Cost is a major consideration for the newly formed allotment association which will find it hard to raise necessary funds.
Total area to be surfaced is 400 sq. m.
The association is not happy with the idea of a plastic grid/cellular system (e.g. Bodpave or grasscrete through which grass can grow) on the grounds of cost. Quote: "Mesh grid plates over the same area at £30 sq. metre = £12,000."
They are proposing scalpings laid to a depth of 50mm. Quote: "Equals 34 ton at say £26.10 ton = £887.40."
My view is that 50mm depth is not sufficient for cars (typical for a footway maybe) and that scalpings is hardly an ideal top surface material being more usually used a sub-base for something else. A shingle alternative is likely to disperse all over the place so I think whatever is used needs to be self-binding to some extent.
The Parish Council wants this to be low cost but also fit for purpose and reasonably attractive in a country setting as this is something of a showcase project for us.
Please can you offer me some suggestions! I really would appreciate your advice on this.
John
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:03 pm
by Pablo
50mm is way too thin the cars will sink through it into the mud in no time. You'd be best with at least 150mm which would be about 120 tons (34 ton wouldn't be enough for 50mm coverage). Also all the topsoil should be stripped off and you may need a geotextile between the stone and the subsoil to stop it pumping through when it's wet. Another option would be grass reinforcing mesh just cut the grass level up any dips and roll it out and pin it down. Throw some seed over any bare soil and it'll be able to take a car in a months time. You'll need about 14 20x2m rolls there's plenty of places online that sell it. This option would have the least visual impact and you could perhaps edge it with some long pine logs to stop cars wandering off it.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:29 pm
by lutonlagerlout
my allotment site is here
our carparks are planings,its not the finest but good enough for allotments
we just a £7k grant off the lottery fund for our new compostable toilet,which I installed
might be worth getting some quotes and going to the lottery fund
also AFAIK the parks department of the council does odds and sods to keep the allotment people happy
LLL 
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:41 pm
by GB_Groundworks
I've done allotment work for parish councils mainly paths etc around the plots and even for the paths I used 100mm dtp1. 50mm scalpings will not be sufficient.
I'm building a carpark at the moment 600sq metres and that on already existing hardstanding on cold plainings and hardcore will be 100mm dtp1 no cheap scalping.
You go cheap you go twice, short term gain long term problem. Either go the correct way 150mm dtp1 on to the scraped off back to good ground properly consolidated. Or the cheaper and inferior option of cold plainings from the highways laid over hardcore or good sub strata such as dry hard clay.
You should be able to get plainings cheaper or maybe even free if you go to the council and ask for some fellow beaurocrat favour from their highways department.
Lot cheaper and less embarrassing to do it right first time than have cars upto there axles come first bit of rain.
Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1294774966
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:06 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
and to add to the correct mentioned way above . you will need to hire a sit on roller .
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:47 pm
by lutonlagerlout
thing is guys most allotment associations haven't got a pot to pish in
our one has 200 plots and the rent is £15 a year each
so as you can imagine once the electric and water has been paid there isn't much left out of £3000 PA
we have a mixture of old concrete roads and planings but i have to say there isnt any problems with the planings
well rolled i expect
LLL
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:24 pm
by speedycar
Thanks so far guys - really helpful. We are a small rural Parish without much money to contribute and it is a very small site too compared to a municipal authority for example - indeed I question whether we need so much space for cars but that's another matter. However, we are starting from scratch - a bare field - and are hoping for some grant funding to help get it all off the ground (or in the ground!).
Some wider views on grass reinforcing mesh as suggested by Pablo as an alternative would be of interest. I have discounted using a cellular grid solution because of cost but this seems like a cheaper alternative. However, on the face of it, it doesn't sound as if it is quite up to the job to me; the field has been known to get quite muddy at times as the whole area is on a bit of a flood plain with clay subsoil. This doesn't sound as long lasting as laying a proper depth of scalpings / dtp1.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:26 pm
by GB_Groundworks
You answered your own question, only one way to do it properly scrape off then lay stone/plainings/nand consolidate
Might be able to look locally for a demolition job wherebthey could tip the clean hardcore for you then just blind with stone or plainings
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:11 pm
by digerjones
hey up tony i like the compost toilet on your allotment site. you think they would clad them with wood to blend in a bit. you got good big digger to dig a little hole but i expect someone was doing you a favour. in my village they want allotments, in my veiw there should'nt be much need for allotments in a rural village. everyone has a garden with a lawn that they would'nt want to dig up. i think at the moment its the in thing and a fad, these people would get bored after 12 months. in a parish if 10 or more people show interest in a allotment the parish coucil have to look into it and then try and find a field.if my parish coucil buy a feild it will put my coucil tax up. rant over. ps i do think allotments are needed in the right areas.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:48 pm
by speedycar
Thanks GB_Groundworks,
I thought this was being suggested as a last ditch option.
Must be doing well as an "apprentice"!! Promotion?
digerjones, please rest assured that the site will be self-sustaining financially. We have a strong sense of community and the local town council has a long waiting list.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:54 pm
by Mikey_C
this may be out there, as an idea, but, Is it worth digging over the whole site sieveing the dug material putting back say everything below 10mm i.e the soil, collect the rest mainly stones bricks etc (as per the spoil at LLL's allotments) crush this and use it as the a subase? just the random thoughts of someone who should really know better.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:03 pm
by speedycar
In short, NO!
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:13 pm
by lutonlagerlout
dylan we had to have the 5 tonner to lift the toilet off the lorry
the base was effectively a 4 yd skip
the council paid for the digger and i got paid to supervise etc,the rest gave their time for the common good
I like the allotment,its a place to get away for a couple of hours and I am not in the pub,or creating mayhem elsewhere
of course there has been an influx of women and its them that wanted the toilet ???
blokes have been pishing in their compost heaps for 100 years but women want a sit down loo!!
a lot of newcomers think that they will save money with an allotment but they couldnt be farther from the truth,i reckon a pound of spuds costs me about a fiver growing them ,but its the satisfaction of eating summat you grew
its been a bit sparse the last month over our allotment,winter is when the hardcore gardeners are there
LLL
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:31 pm
by digerjones
tony that did tickle me, everyone gave up their time to work for free but you managed to get paid just to supervise. thats classic.
Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:49 pm
by lutonlagerlout
well they kept on and on that they needed someone experienced as a banksman
i said if its a weekday i have to charge you,
and it was a weekday
santander dont freeze the mortgage because i am helping someone out
I did a freebie last year at the allotments and that is it for me
cheers LLL