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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am
by Vic
Before I ramble on...I'd like to say what a great site you have here, It's very helpfull, thanks.
Ok, here goes...
Me and me old man work together. He's been in the game about 35 years, and like yourself tony, and others I'm sure, he had me on the old 3d's and 3c's learning how to pull the levers when I was 9. So I grew up and bacame a machine driver while he was a ganger for the firm we both worked for off and on for the last 18 years.
The time came for me to fly the nest and strike out on me own, working for different firms, trying different jobs. Generally driving the plant or labouring. I worked as banksman for a coal navvie and then a dumper driver for a couple of years in the opencast mine where I used to live. Worse job I ever put myself up for, was a job picking orders in a wharehouse. I couldn't take anymore than 3 weeks and left. It's hard working inside when you've been outside most of your working life.
So anyway, after doing the rounds so to speak, I finally ended up back with the old man. He's in semi-retirement now, or so he keeps telling me... We just do domestic work, Patios, drives, fencing, drainage, the odd retaining wall.
The problem is, is that the friction between us on-site has been rising lately, to the point where I speared the trowel through the bottom of the barrow last week and stormed of the job, and left him to struggle.
I know thats bad...
Knowing he would struggle on his own wasn't the reason I left him there though.
He just got my back up so much, He'd been pressing my buttons all morning, and bang, that was it..trowel goes west.
Upon reflection, I can see that we seem to be fighting each other all the time, I mean it's like being in competition with him all the time. I'm not a competitive guy in that way, I know what I know, I know what I don't know, I can apologise if I'm wrong, and I don't mind admiting that I don't know something, I dont think you ever stop learning.
Me dads' totally opposite, so that's when we start havin problems like last week.
I know that if we get a few things sorted out, things could be great, but he keeps saying things like "I'm set in me ways" and "you talk to me like I've just come in 't' game" Grrrrrr.
Me question then is, is it just me and mine or is it a common family affair?
Will father dear ever change or do I just have to put up with him?
He's 57 and I'm 32
lol...looking back on this post, It seems I'd have been better putting it on Trishas website..
Ah well...thanks for looking anyways...
Cheers
Vic
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:27 am
by Tool
hi m8
well i know the feeling myself i worked with my brother for about 5 years and the fights we had were nearly fists flyin, but after 30 mins it would cool down but we must have had 2 fights a day lol.
I think it is a common thing workin with family, like a m8 said to me once never work with your family and he was right.
All i can say to you m8 is stay with the old man but try and go by yourself and when u think you have enough work go it alone.
Best thing i did was go it alone tuff to start with but i am a lot happier, also i am not fightin over the money when it comes pay day.
You are not alone m8 i bet there is loads of family companies like it.
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:50 pm
by Vic
Hey up Tool,
Cheers bud... I hear what your sayin about going it alone. It's something I've been working towards over the last 6 months. I have some jobs of me own to get on with, but you know at times you need a second pair of hands, preferably on someone who knows what they're doin.
I mentioned it to him this morning at snap time, christ, you'd have thought I was going to live on the moon or something and never see him again...lol He knows how to lay a good guilt trip on yer. I pretended not to pick up on it anyway :;): Just jumped back on the machine and started scratchin....
It took him 3 days to get over last weeks carry on, so he should be allright by friday 
Well, better bugger off to bed. Early one tomorrow...
Cheers m8
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:41 pm
by Tony McC
My dad and me found the perfect way to work together. He worked in Preston and I worked in Liverpool, and then he'd move down to Southport and I'd bugger off to Hoylake, or Chester, or Salford. We did everything we could not to work on the same site if at all possible, because you can't have two bosses telling the lads what to do.
We'd speak on the 'phone every night (he only agreed to have a mobile phone after he'd so-called retired!) and meet up for 'progress reviews' a couple of times a week, and all worked well. He taught his lads how he wanted things done, then I'd have to unlearn 'em when they came to work in my gangs, and vice versa.
It is, as you said, difficult working with fambly, but when the chips are down, when the bleeding JCB needs a new hose fitting and it's 11 o'clock at night, when the wagon breaks down on the way back from the batching plant, when there's a right stuck-up cow of a client that really gets on your tits, you always know your dad (or your son) will be there to give you a hand. And you should never, ever underestimate the value of experience. My owld feller's 71 now, and I'm still learning from him!
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 7:39 pm
by Nigel Walker
I started working with my old man when i was about 12 in the school hols and weekends.
Left school at 17 ( im 34 now) went to college to learn computers - hated it , being inside all day, so jacked in and went to work full time for pops
My first day on site - I asked what I should do. He said just do as the lads say. So I went to the lads and asked what I should be doing. The reply - You tell us youre the boss now !!! So I had to go and see the Site Agent and organise the work - this was the story for the next few years. Told me dad later on and he just thought I was making it up . To this day he still thinks I was the little boy doing as his men told me , when actually it was the other way round.
On the occasions when we worked on site together, we must have had major arguments at least once a day. He would do something his way - I would suggest an easier way - he would say boll*x Im older I know best , then 10 mins later he would be doing it my way saying it was his idea all along!!
I must have jacked in every few months - walked off site saying Ive had enough - he shouts If you leave now dont bother coming back. I return to work next day - all is calm (for a couple of hours at least).
We only used to get on together when we were working apart - communicating by phone.
Since I stopped working with him - about 5 years ago. We get on a lot better. We actually talk about things other than work and we can talk for hours without arguing or disagreeing - something that never used to happen.
But what Tony says about respect is true. He did teach me most of what I know now and if I ever get stuck - guess who I phone ?
One of the best ways me dad used to teach me was to just let me work things out myself. When I was 17 I got on site at 8am there was a mini digger 1.5t and a load of clay pipes. What are we doing today Dad ? I asked. YOU are digging a trench and laying the pipes was the reply. He then disappeared. I jumped on the digger for the 1st time in my life - played around for half an hour. By the end of the day I had dug the trench and laid all the pipes. He still thinks someone else helped me !!!
So as much as I did not enjoy working with the old man - I wouldnt be doing what I am today without his help - whether he realises it or not.
Good on you pops
Nigel
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 8:29 pm
by Vic
Well lads, thanks alot for your input! you've made me day...
I can go to work tommorrow a happier man.
Funnily enough he's got to have tomorrow off....for reasons unforseen just yet, probably his back after the 5 metres of hand dig round services this mornin. I told him to let me scrat a bit of with the mini, but he insisted, and fairplay to him. His instincts told him right as we found the gas pipe just under the surface....
Then he dropped a b*****k in the afternoon by not pulling enough cable through the wall in to the c/unit in the pantry. We'd already backfilled and wacked the trench at this point, it was 4 O'clock and the mini had been knocked of hire....DOH!
I looked at him, he looked at me, and all I could do was laugh... other wise i would have cried... :laugh: Of course he blamed it on me not telling him to pull enough through... :laugh:
Jesus it's a bitersweet life...
I understand completely what yer saying about the experience thing. It's only over the last few years have I come to realise how much you rely on and need each other.
He's in agreement about my suggestion to stick to our own jobs and bring each other in when needed, so....
All I have to do now is build up a good reputation so I don't have to operate under his
Hey Nigel, there's no better way of learning sometimes other than getting chucked in at the deep end hey... :laugh:
Well lads.. Thanks again for your thoughts, they're much appreciated!
I'm gonna go have a look round the site now and learn summat!
Best wishes
Vic
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:38 pm
by lutonlagerlout
just found this thread and there was me thinking it was just me and my auld fella that go at it hammer and tongs (hes 62 i'm 38) i have driven home on a 3 tonne dumper before,after my brother wound me up so much i smacked him in the mouth.
dad cam back with the wages and asked what had happened to gary's lip?
the lads told gary to say the mixer handle had hit him but he blurted out the S.P.
my old man got the lads in the transit and told me i could walk home,so it was a 2 hour trip on the dumper and a lot of horns hooting etc. you know the story
anyway someone must have put in a good word because my brother finished the following day and it was never spoke about again
like you nigel i tried 'puters for a while ,but i think outdoor work is in your blood
i couldnt work indoors if i was paid
cheers LLL 
Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:28 pm
by Stuarty
In the firm i work for we got our foreman, and he had his eldest son working with him for about year and a half. Everyday, there would be an argument in the morning, before breakfast, and one in the afternoon just around finishing up time. There were some awkward breaks and trips back to the yard. More than once the lad would launch something, usually a bit of wood at his ol'man would usually retaliate with a hammer or "get to f**k off the job, your finished up son". Now hes got his youngest son working with him, and its exactly the same. Must be a father son thing i think.
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 9:40 am
by mouldmaker
I've worked with my father-in-law for many years now, and he drives me mad. It's not so bad since I realised why. He just does things differently to me. When I see him working I think "Stupid wazzock, why's he doing it THAT way?" when really, at the end of the day, the job's still getting done.
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:14 pm
by Tony McC
My owld feller's taken on a big flag laying job in heaven since this thread started, but I'd give anything to have him back down here with us mortals. In the thirty odd years we worked together, we only really fell out once, and that was primarily due to the summer heat and bastard lump of concrete that wouldn't budge.
At one time in the 1980s, we had my ex brother-in-law working for us, and while we were working on the Bus/Rail interchange in Bury he took exception to some comment my Dad made, and stormed off the site, walking the 27 miles home to St.Helens with a miserable scowl on his face, the soft git. Me and Dad finished up the shift (these were 12 hours shifts - 7 to 7), got well paid for the day, stopped off for a pint, and were still home a good two hours before misery-guts, with 150 quid apiece in our back pockets for a day's graft!
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:21 pm
by Dave_L
I work with my Father-in-Law - yes, things do get heated and stressful at times but I find myself very lucky to have such a supportive and expereienced tradesman to learn from and work with, both on and off the tools, in the office or out with customers.
People say "Don't mix work with family" - believe you me that was a fear of mine when I took the plunge, but, to date, nothing could have been further from the truth....
Edited By Dave_L on 1181582509
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 7:44 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i think a lot of it is that some older fellas dont like progress,my old man still harks on about knocking up 16 gauges of muck in the diesel mixer before tea (1960's all jack walls were 9" brickwork slashed up) and he absolutely loves hand digging
now as deft as i am with a fork and a pick ,i can see that a machine will make me look stationary,hes coming round though nowadays,he does the paperwork and i run the jobs,works well till we have a site meeting :;):
LLL
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:26 pm
by Dave_L
He likes hand digging? wow! :p
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:45 pm
by Tony McC
I wish I could still dig. There's nowt better for working off anger or tension than digging a big hole with just a spade and your own brute strength.
We hand-dug a well 20-odd years ago. In a tiny courtyard in the centre of a town, no way of getting machinery anywhere near it. We went about 25-30mm deep, through boulder clay down to the ORS bedrock, and I absolutely loved it.
When I read about all these young 'uns paying 30-40 quid a month for gym membership to keep themselves in trim, I'd gladly let them come and dig holes for me and I'd only charge them a paltry 25 quid! They'd end up a lot fitter than they would running on one of those bloody road-to-nowhere machines!
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:21 am
by lutonlagerlout
no dave he likes me hand digging
as T says i do find digging therapeutic,you are at one with nature,i can do about a skip a day on my own ,with a lad on the barrow
now breaking concrete, that is a nuisance been doing that for 2 days solid now 
LLL