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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:12 pm
by London Stone Paving
I've got a question on a party wall. I think I know the answer but I wanted to run it past the bc.
I had 2 chimneys running through my house. I wanted to renovate the house and decidedci might as well remove them to make the rooms bigger. I removed them up to loft level as a short term measure and corbelled them. I now need to work out a permanent solution because i need to renovate the loft. My first idea was to knock a hole in the gable end and put a big rsj going straight through the house. It would have sat on the brick work at the front and back of the house and supported both chimneys. I have since decided that I want to remove th chimneys completely as they have no use and will just be an ongoing maintenance cost. The chimneys are half on my neighbours side so I will need to get a party wall agreement. If I just removed 2 thirds of my half of the chimneys and therefore did not require to touch his side, can I do it without a party wall agreement ? Has anyone got any experience on this?
Cheers steve
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:18 pm
by lutonlagerlout
as you say steve you know the answer already
yes, you will need some agreement unless the neighbour wants to take his down as well
chimneys like yours are built at the same time so taking yours down can seriously affect his,you will probably have to do remedial work on his
are you planning on converting the loft?
if not a couple of illegal gallows brackets will do the trick
450 by 300 mm angle iron bolted to the centre wall then a steel plate on top
cheers LLL
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:20 pm
by gonchy
not sure how it works all i know is im doing my loft this year and if i go steels i need the party agreement becouse of them going into the party wall but if i go the girder truss route and hang them of heavy duty shoes i dont
so if you remove up to your party wall and dont go beyond i dont see a probelm
not sure if any help
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:59 pm
by lutonlagerlout
the problem is gonchy that most chimneys have a centre course of bricks that belongs to both houses
if the steels run parallel to the front of the property you need PWA
perpendicular you dont
but steve is proposing to remove half of a chimeny stack
roof has to be made good and lead flashing etc etc
It can be done but the neighbour needs to OK it
IMHO
LLL 
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:55 pm
by London Stone Paving
Thanks for the replies guys.
Gonchy, that was my first thought as well but in order to remove my chimmney's I need to cut bricks which are half on his side, so the party wall act is applicable.
Tony, yeh I was pretty sure but thought it was worth asking the question. I read some real horrors on the internet about the party wall act. I get on well with my neighbour though so hopefully we will be able to get it sorted out without too much fuss
steve
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:43 am
by cookiewales
there is alot of weight coming down that stack to the corbelled brickwork beware steve i would link the two rsj up bolt top and bottom using steel channel that fits inside the rsj take em at least a meter each side run it passed a str eng sooner the better dont want to worry you but have seen them go all ways better to work from the top down
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:20 pm
by London Stone Paving
Cheers Cookie
Yeh, I know, it needs doing. I'm having them out completely next week from the top down
Steve
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:11 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i never saw a building fail from being over specified steve
are you redoing the work under BCO guidance?
a lot may have changed since it was done originally
be aware lofts are a financial minefield
LLL
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:10 pm
by London Stone Paving
Tony, its not that its been over specified.
In the last picture you can see the RSJ which was cut into the chimmney stack to form part of the roof support. The angled timber that comes off the RSJ then fixes to another new timber which runs under the original roof supports. That timber is 4x2 and its been fixed under the roof supports on its weaker edge. That piece of 4x2 timber has also been joined together in a few places, so there is absolutely no strength in it if the roof does start moving making the RSJ which its fixed too not necessary. I will post another picture when I have fully uncovered it but I have also found an RSJ which sits on top of a stud wall elsewhere in the loft. They have then fixed the timber supports on the lower eves to this RSJ and in doing so have sawn through the original loft floor joists. A picture will explain it better. Whoever has done the job has been very thorough but I just dont think they were very clever in what they did
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:50 pm
by lutonlagerlout
unbelievably (to me anyway) we have been allowed to bear an RSJ ridge beam on to a 4 by 4 timber post in a loft before
big problem now is that architects love ridge beams and invariably the ridge runs into the chimney
as you cannot have a steel going into an open flue this creates havoc
also the fire escape windows have been chucked out now round our way
it changes every other week
cheers LLL
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:54 pm
by London Stone Paving
I always thought that steel had to sit on brick or concrete.
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:58 pm
by mickg
no it can sit on a steel pad stone too, I did a loft conversion a couple of years ago and the drawing was asking for a 300mm x 300mm pad stone and there was no way we could install it so the building inspector said use a 25mm thick steel plate 900mm long which worked a treat
Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:42 pm
by lutonlagerlout
London Stone Paving wrote:I always thought that steel had to sit on brick or concrete.
me to but we were told to do it and we did
didnt ring right to me,but the SE assured me that as long as its fireproofed timber can be very strong
cheers LLL
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:17 pm
by rab1
It takes longer for a timber framed building to collapse in a fire than a steel. ???
