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Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:29 pm
by GB_Groundworks
So a lad I do all his groundworks for rd this way and he's a good friend played rugby with him since we were about 10 was working up Rochdale way.
He got a firm in to mini pile the footings and well it turns out 7 years later they piled right through a drain. United utilities have got involved and have tried to mike the pipe and line it. But the metal concrete filled pile is in the way.
So my mate was asking is he liable or the sub contracted ground workers, he was the principal contractor and the mini pile firm were subies, but proper invoiced job not cash,
The utilise and drains mapped but uu saying the pile has gone in at an angle and so hit their drain.
My mates worried as they are talking about taking the extension down..... To get to it and anything uu do isn't cheap.
To add to it the groundworkers he used went bump last year, but he has their insurance details.
Am I right that they are liable and their insurance is liable for it or is it my mate dan liable for it as main contractor?
That's my I like digging at least if you break a drain you can fix it
Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1359210618
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:21 pm
by rimexboy
I would imagine the main man is the first port of call, if the contractor has subbed the work out he is still partly responsible as he gave them the job, not the customer
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:21 pm
by local patios and driveway
Sounds like your mates liability insurance is going to take a big hit to me. Made even worse that the subbie has gone under (when he should have gone round)
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:28 pm
by mickg
even after 7 years Dan ?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 5:38 pm
by msh paving
i think you will find the subbie's insurance is still liable even after close of buisness, as this happened while under cover,
years ago i had a issue driving a digger while subbing for a groundwork co.i cliped a car on site, i had to use my insurance as it was my fault being selfemployed,i doubt the main contractor will be held liable as he sub-contracted the work MSH 
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:52 pm
by Tony McC
I'm with Mark - the subbie's original insurance is the one carrying the risk.
When a job such as this is properly insured, it's usually the work in perpetuity that is insured, not just for the duration of the contract or the defects period. There are some cheap insurance deals which only cover work while the contract is live, but these are rarely, if ever, used by any civils company undertaking work at depths greater than 3m.
It may be that, on completion of the work, the effective 'sale' of the extension to the homeowner transferred risk to their Buildings Insurance, especially if a mortgage was raised to cover the costs and a BCO was involved to sign-off the works.
I suspect the various insurers will spend months blaming anyone but themselves, but at the end of the day, one of them is going to have to pay out. My heart bleeds (lying).
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:02 pm
by GB_Groundworks
yeah thats what i said, my insurance and my dads certainly cover work in perpetuity against defects of work
but ive passed him onto our structural engineer as hes done lots of piling and used ot work out in the gulf on projects, he'll know better about dealing with it
my mates stressing though, i was going to get a mini pile rig thinking against it now...
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:17 pm
by flowjoe
Surely there was a building over agreement in place which the main contractor was responsible for ?.
Even after we have mapped out and traced sewers they dont like you piling within a metre or so due to ground heave, sounds like a bodged job which should come down to the main contractor.
But !, is it not part of you mates insurances and general risk assessment to ask the right questions of the main contractor ?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:41 am
by lutonlagerlout
we completed a job 8 years ago in harpenden,the client asked could he use our roofer to do a small flat roof <2m2
yeah fine
anyway the roofer is doing torch on and the clients plumber is in the loft
FF 1 hour the house is a smouldering wreck
all the insurance companies spent 18 months blaming everyone etc etc
but in the end the clients household insurance paid out
and guess who did the rebuild :;):
LLL
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:51 am
by rimexboy
Elvis:D
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:13 am
by GB_Groundworks
Flow my mate was the main builder he got the sub contract pilling lads in to do the footings, surely this relates to tonies post about darts that if you work as a professional you are fit and proper, so I'm not sure my mate was on site when they did the piling and ground beam.
His insurance are saying its the subcontracts problem (shock!)
The drain was 150mm 5-6metres down
The extension adjoins another extension on the neighbouring property so no room to dig
Ill find out more today at rugby as he's our number 7
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:34 pm
by Pablo
Another person to throw some blame at would be the engineer even if the pipe was mapped it's likely to only be a ball park position so piles should've been adjusted accordingly. Also what's a 150mm pipe doing 6m underground around housing how would you ever sort that if it had a problem. Cheapest fix is likely to be a pumping station.