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Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:24 pm
by carlbeardsmore
Hi Guys,
I have just moved into a new house. I want to build a rear external garage, put in a drive to the garage, and also block pave the front drive. To dig the footings and dig out the drive I want to purchase a 1.5 ton mini digger instead of hiring one. I thought I could buy it, no need to rush in doing the job due to hire costs, then sell it at the end.
I am total clueless when it comes to knowing which makes and models are good , and what not to touch with a barge pole.
Has anybody had any experience of Powerfab type Mini Diggers? or should I go the whole hog and buy a 1.5 ton type digger. I could make use of the blade on the front of a larger digger which the powerfab does not have. But, I would also benefit from being able to tow the Powerfab and not have to use a trailer.
Cheers Carl.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:18 pm
by Tony McC
While it's tempting to consider the alleged transportability of the little Powerfab machines, they pay for that by not having as much wallop as other machines of a similar size.
I really like Kubota machines. They have a long pedigree and it's a doddle to get hold of spares, when they're needed (and they will be!)
As long as you buy right, you should find that whatever you pay for the mini-digger, you should be able to recoup that same amount in 12-18 months time when you've done with it. Steve Rogers, another Brew Cabin Irregular, bought a little mini-digger when he did his driveway last year and I'm not sure if he's still got it. I'll see if I can get him to pass on what he learned from the experience.
In the meantime, try looking at somewhere like Resale Weekly to keep track of what's available for what sort of money. It's far more reliable than E&M or Daltons Weekly!
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:22 pm
by Nigel Walker
Whenever I hire Mini Diggers, I either go for the JCB 801/803 or the Takechi 1.5 / 3 ton.
I actually prefer the Takechi make. But most hire places have the JCBs
The Takechi Micro machine is fantastic. 800kg and will fit through a doorway. Ideal for getting round the back of houses between gates etc. The machine obviously is not as powerful, but will soon make light work of a garden full of soil with a couple of gofers with barrows !
I have thought about buying a mini digger. But it would be standing about for 80 % of the time. It is easier hiring one for £40 per day. If anything goes wrong it doesnt cost you.
Most of my drives 50 - 125m2 can be dug and and carted away in one day using a mini digger and skips.
Last week 2 of us dug off a concrete drive 75m2 and loaded into 3 No. 8yd skips. We had 16 ton of Type 1 Sub Base levelled and compacted before 3.30pm. The digger was collected at 4pm. Its nice when those sort of jobs go to plan
Nigel
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:40 pm
by Tony McC
40 quid per day is a bargain rate, and it's not worth tryting to compete with it, but if you were looking at, say, 200-250 quid for the week, or 150 quid for a min 3 day hire, then it starts to make more sense to buy a second-hand, 3yr old machine for, say, 4 grand. You can use it when you need it, and when it's parked up, see if any of the other local gangs want a borrow of it for 50-60 quid per day (plus delivery).
If I was back in the contracting game, I'd definitely have me own mini-digger (along with a little crusher machine, too) as I think a piece of kit like that pays for itself in 12 months, but you get the tax relief and the cost-free use of it for at least 3 years. Yes: I know you have to spend a bit on repairs, but even so, it's still cost effective.
What rates are other contractors paying to hire in a mini-digger?
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:07 pm
by carlbeardsmore
The main reason I decided I wanted to buy, instead of rent is due to the cheapest deal I could find was £80 per day or £250 for the week. Like Tony said, it does not take long for you to buy your own.
Posted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:04 pm
by ABILITY
Its not just a matter of the cost of hiring in, to have one available as and when you require saves so much work. Those small jobs, 10ton of crusher to load and barrow etc, not really worth hiring in for, but if yours is there then makes life easier.
We have an old Powerfab, as well as newer 1.5 tonners, the model is a 180 on tracks, still with a honda petrol engine.
A cracking little machine, gets in small places, dead stable and more pull out power than the larger machines. I would recommend this machine for bits and bobs of work but not to sit on all day as they are a bit nosiy and thursty.
As far as other 1.5tons go, would favour most of the others over the Jcbs, Hitachi being as good as they get, nice smooth machines.
If looking around check out the dipper/boom length, as it makes a huge difference to grading etc with that bit more reach.
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:59 am
by LandscapeMann
I own a Gehl 362, which is actually made by Neuson in Austria. A splendid high quality machine. It weighs 8,600 lbs. I bought new in 2001. $45,000 U.S.
I believe they rent for $250>$300 per day over on this side of the pond.
LM
Edited By LandscapeMann on 1098057715
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:52 pm
by Nigel Walker
I can hire a 1.5 ton or a 3 ton mini digger for £40 per day inc. trailer or £110.00 per week inc trailer.
At these prices there is no need to buy a digger.
Plus, if you own a mini digger you will try to use it on jobs that you wouldnt normally. ie if you have a 200m2 drive with 200mm of concrete you would get a 3CX machine and wagon to remove the waste - this would take 1 day. If you own a 1.5 ton mini digger you would try to use this for the same job. But it would take a lot longer, the smaller machinne would struggle to lift the concrete in large pieces -you would need a breaker, you wouldnt be able to load a 10 ton wagon with a mini digger, you would need skips, it would take a lot longer which in turn means less profit. The other scenario is if the digger you own wont fit through the small gap to the rear garden, what do you do then. You wouldnt want to hire one when you already own one - so you would use pick, shovel and barrow. Again lost time = lost profit. If you did hire a smaller digger then the one you own would be standing doing nothing - again wasted money.
In my opinion it is much better to hire the right size machine for the right size job
This way you only have the digger when you need it. Which if you are doing the job right will only be for the 1st day of every job. Very rarely do I have a digger on hire for more than 1 day.
Plus you have to consider the insurance, the storage, the buying of a trailer to move it, the diesel, the oils the maintenence, the repairs to the smashed windscreen -etc.
I will stick to hiring a digger when needed
Nigel
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:52 pm
by alan ditchfield
Would have to agree with Ability on the fact that your own machine could be utilised on jobs that you would not usually hir4e one in for, efficiencey is profit after all, we usually use a 3 tonner as they make life so much easier than the 1.5,s we pay £60/day for these. As for my favourite there are a few good ones but if we were to buy one i would be tempted with the volvo or kubota.
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:51 am
by LandscapeMann
You are probably right. It may be more cost efficient to rent.
I choose to own. I have a mini skid steer and utility ATV for getting into the tight backyards. And my 3.5 ton mini excavator for the heavy lifting. If you buy top quality new and take good care of your equipment. It will perform well and last a very long time.
I just happen to love equipment.
LM
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:07 pm
by carlbeardsmore
How do I go about hiring a digger at these low prices? Every place I enquire at seems to want to charge double the price quoted... Am I being charged soo much cause I am not in the trade?
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:27 pm
by Tony McC
Possibly. You can usually get a trade price by calling yourself summat like "Beardsmore Construction", dropping the odd f-word into the conversation, having the crack of yer arse on show courtesy of a pair of ill-fitting jeans, and appearing slightly knowledgeable by asking for a 'machine' rather than a "little digger thingy", inquiring about the buckets that come with it, and whether they're quick-hitch or not.
Some of the more fancy hire companies bugger this up by asking for Vat reg numbers and/or insurance details, but there's no harm in trying, and if you do get cornered, simply tell them you'll have to get the info from the office and you'll get back to them. :;):
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:37 pm
by Nigel Walker
The prices I am getting are all plus vat. Somif you are Joe Bloggs off the street you will be paying VAT - even if the hire center tell you youre not !!!
It depends on the area you live and how much competition for plant hire firms there are in the area.
I usd to pay £55 per day (+vat) for a 1.5 ton After a bit of haggling and bullshitting I now get £40 per day. If the hire company thinks it is losing a sale and you tell them that you can get the same for £15 cheaper down the road, they will give you the right price. Plus it all depends how often you hire off the company. The company I deal with has every type of excavator from 800kg to 20 ton, I also hire Load Alls, rollers, compressors, etc etc. So I am classed as a valued customer - that is until someone else offers the same products cheaper !!!!
Nigel
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 6:44 pm
by alan ditchfield
Where in the country are you Carl, PS.. Which company do you rent from Nigel, Someone with a range of machines like this would be invaluable to my company, ps. do they rent you the 20tns machine direct?
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:48 pm
by carlbeardsmore
I am in Dudley in the West Midlands. I have use of a 3.5 ton Transit so towing the digger is not a problem.i.e I could collect as some hire firms seem to take the urine in the delivery costs.
I have only found a few companies willing to hire locally to a non trade person.
All the others want to send a operative. Thats the main reason I thought about buying one myself then selling it on at the end of the work.
I have never operated a digger so I could spend a few days of the hire just getting used to how it works. This would be costly excercise.
I am more confused now about should I buy or should I hire.. I need to go and lie down in a dark room :;):