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Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:57 am
by bert
Hi guys, ive got a question about moving a toilet. my bathroom and toilet are in different rooms , mrs bert wants the toilet put into the bathroom.
can i run a new foul drain under my house? i might not have enough fall on it to get it around the house. what do you think?
its on a combined rain water and foul water system , kitchen and rainwater come from the back of the house to an inspection chamber at the side then it drops dramatically to another chamber close to the front of the house , the toilet also drains into this.
if i were to go under the house how deep would it need to be? what are the regs involved in this?
any help on this guys would be greatly appreciated.
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:17 am
by lutonlagerlout
without a site visit to check invert levels its hard to say ,going under an existing house would have to be your last port of call as it is a can of worms
have you considered a macerator?
saniflow do some very good systems and and you can have a loo anywhere you want then?
LLL
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:18 am
by Dave_L
Just what I was going to suggest. A mate has a poo-chopper (as I fondly call it) and it pumps away via a 32mm MDPE water pipe. I do hope no-one in the future tries to tap into said pipe for a water supply...........................
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:54 am
by seanandruby
It would be possible. You would need to install another chamber for change of direction, fall etc. what kind of floor is it, ie: block and beam etc? depending on type you may have to dig out, or suspend the pipework. have you much of a budget?
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:13 pm
by GB_Groundworks
heres a job we did before block and beam floors went on, pipes benched up for support
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:25 pm
by bert
thanks for the replys fellas , its a 500 year old timber framed thatched cottage , no real foundations to worry about except shallow brick plinths. someone came along in the 60's/70's and put a plastic dpc down under concrete which is pushing damp into the walls so i will be taking the floors up anyway , its 100mm or so put on a bed of sand (i presume) and this is just sat on the clay. the floors should be stone/brick laid straight to earth or a bed of sand , or if i am feeling posh a slab of lime mortar.
the ground is pretty level but as you say it would need checked.
ive thought about a poo chopper but i dont think regs will let me have one as an only toilet and they are supposed to be unreliable anyway.
so , do you think i need to try and put a new drain round the back of the kitchen? not enough fall to lin k up to the existing drain so i would have to come all the way round to the 1000mm deep chamber out front.
or,
can i come straight under the house to the 1000mm chamber?
what fall does a foul waste drain have to have?
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 1:58 pm
by lutonlagerlout
1:40
poo choppers are fine if fitted correctly
its hard to say from my study but if the pipes get blocked under your floor it can be difficult
LLL
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:02 pm
by flowjoe
I am not a big fan of the macerator units, probably because i have had to dismantle so many over the years, they are certainly more reliable than they were but can be a bit noisy on suspended floors.
There no reason you cant run a drain under the property if falls allow and you put adequate access points in as Sean says.
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:20 pm
by bert
access points? surely not in thew middle of my living room? 
if i were to come straight out to the front of the house (bottom of plan , very right of house) then do a 90 turn and go to the 1000mm chamber on the bottom left of the plan i would need an inspection chamber over the 90 bend wouldn't i? would this have to be one of those big rectangle steel covers?
are these things easy to put in? ive worked as a plumber for a few years but no nothing about drainage.
are there any regs that i need to observe and is this notifiable to building control?
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:37 pm
by flowjoe
Bert
Thats fine as long as you have direct access from the manhole back to the rest bend beneath the pan, at that kind of depth you can install the preformed plastic manholes with a 450mm round covers. You can of course cover that with an inset cover to disguise it.
I would work your falls out first, you can get away with very little fall on plastic because it is so smooth but try to use as much fall as possible on the change of direction.
Technically i suppose building control may have some interest in the matter, they might however be very surprised if you got in touch unless you are moving walls or knocking lumps out of any foundations.
Dont be digging a long trench adjacent to the gable foundations if the depth of the pipe is the same or lower than the foundation, either move across away from the wall or do it in sections.
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:53 pm
by mickg
no it would be in the bathroom area at the end of the run of pipework to allow for rodding all the pipework
you will need to install a durgo valve above the 90 degree tee what connects to the toilet, this is to stop the water from being sucked out of the wash hand basin trap when the toilet is flushed
you can use a plastic manhole and raising pieces as required with a round or square manhole cover or you could bed a block paving manhole cover and fill with whatever paving you have at the front of the property
plastic drainage is very easy to install, just make sure you have a 1:40 fall and the pipework is well supported along its entire length so it can't settle over time, you just cut the pipe to the required length, clean off the end with a file to give a slight chamfer, add some lubricant and push fit together
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:57 pm
by seanandruby
No panic bertie. You would go under the living room and where you've written 'boundary', install a new inspection chamber. Then pipe to the existing manhole. As flo' says: keep away from the foundations.
Posted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:50 pm
by bert
cheers guys , all sounds good. building control would probably get funny about my floors , i plan to lift them as my old house should not have a dpc but a breathable floor instead and as its not listed they could make me do all sorts of silly things to meet regs , you know , dig well below the shallow foundations to insulate etc , but thats not to say i shouldn't do this properly..
two things , well three really , on the pan side of the pipework , how could i get access to the pipe for rodding? can this be done by taking the pan out then rodding it that way? my pan is an old victorian one that goes straight from the trap vertically into the floor.
will a durgo will have to go out to the outside through the roof or can i put it in a tight roof space between ceiling and tiles.
and , the toilet will be right in the corner so what if i were to come diagonally across the house 'line of sight' to the chamber on the left , this way i dont need a 90 bend out front but it will mean going under the living room , hall and dining room.
Posted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:22 am
by mickg
no you would connect the toilet onto a 90 degree tee with a straight piece of pipe vertically up to the required height to your toilet outlet, you would then extend from the tee to what ever length and direction to install the durgo valve which can be in the toilet area and boxed in or extended into the roof space
for rodding purposes you install an access fitting above the floor height what unscrews like the photo below, the durgo valve is sitting on top of the access point in a plastic bag and when the job was completed was integrated into the wall as the second photo
Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:09 am
by bert
perfek , thanks guys , much appreciated.