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Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:41 pm
by Pavlos
Why does it always have to be on a bank holiday?
Hi everyone.
Recently moved into a house, buil circa 1900. I have rainwater issue to start with because of the conservatory. It seems whoever put it up covered over the surface water drain, and lopped the down pipe just above the conserv. so the rainwater from the roof runs onto the conserv. roof, then into the conserv. gutter and onto a windowsill. Well that's causing me damp in the conserv. as you can probably guess.
Anyay, that's not my main issue. Basically today I flushed the toilet, and the bath filled up. Also leaking from behing the loo where it joins to the main waste pipe. So I'm guessing I have a blockage in the sewer somewhere before it joins the main foul sewer. I have a manhole in the backgarden, but that is just access to the main sewer running along all the back gardens. Water search says seperate foul and surface water sewerage. Surface water is out front of the house. This manhole shows no pipes coming from my house. So now I'm guessing whoever built the conserv. also built over the manhole for the foul sewer access.
Is there any way for me to attempt to unblock the pipe without me having to pull up the tiles in my conserv.? Say, from behind the toilet? I suppose in the long term I'll have to get a manhole sorted outside, and also surface water drainage outside (since there is no drain anywhere in the back garden. Any suggestions?
Ta
Pav
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:43 pm
by Edgecraft
Hi Pav
Nasty one !
I affraid there is no easy solution, whichever way you go about this chances are your going to have to deal with some s**t.
I had a similar problem a few year back and managed to clear it with some flexible hose fed through the toilet, but I live in a bungalow and the blockage was only about 5 metre from the loo.
Since then I have fitted rodding access outside should it ever happen again.
You could try the above method but if the blockage is in the manhole then you really need to work backwards to clear it if you don't want to rip your tiles up.
You will probably need to find the next access point along that your manhole feeds into and rod from there.
Have you tried talking to your neighbours ? it might be the case that one of them can point you exactly to where you need to look !
Good Luck
Darren
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:06 pm
by Pavlos
Thanks Darren.
Will be trying neighbours again soon.
The whole conservatory is a botch job. I will try getting to it from the toilet initially. I have a sink that is closer to the conservatory than the toilet is. The waste from that disappears into the wall adjoining the conserv. Would that waste join the same pipe as my toilet waste somewhere? Do you think running the water in that sink to see if my toilet fills up would give me an indication of if the blackage was closer to the toilet or closer to the conserv.? My toilet is furthest room from the conserv. but all on ground floor. Actually, it's a funny house - three story. Entry on midle floor, then garden out the back of the lower floor, so steps down side of the house to back garden.
What do you mean about next access point? It seems to me the access they have (probably) built over is the only access until it hits the main sewer. I've opened the manhole in the garden which leads to the main sewer, but see no pipes dispensing into it so can only assume it happens slightly further up the main sewer.
Thinking about it actually, there are paving slabs around the conserv. It's always possible the placed these over the manhoe cover.... not counting on it though, judging by the job they made on the downpipe.
And on the downpipe issue, if my water search results mentioned surface water sewer under the road in front of the house only, would my down pipe in the back have previously gone into a soakaway? I might just run the rear guttering round the side of the house and into the front downpipe. Getting damp issues with it currently...
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:27 pm
by seanandruby
It seems that you dont have any alternative but to find your foul manhole and try rodding it. they could of fractured it when they put in the foundatioins for the conservatory.
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:35 pm
by flowjoe
Pav
The blockage may be local to the pan, depends how the bath waste has been plumbed in. The usual suspect is the rest bend local to the pan where the pipe work levels off to run to the main line drainage.
Firstly look at your neighbours properties if they are of a similar style to yours, this may give you an idea of how your system works.
Will the pan connector to the back of the WC come off and give access into the system ? , can the WC be removed.?
Finally if you have a clear manhole downstream of your house it is possible using drain cameras, jetters etc......... to direct the equipment upstream and into blind junctions and towards the blockage.
Hard to tell the best method without seeing the site, but a decent drainage engineer will be able to help, but it can cost ££££££ especially on a bank holiday weekend ???
H.T.H
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:28 pm
by Pavlos
Thanks Sean and Joe
I'm gonna have a go at accessing it behind the pan first. If that doesn't work, I'll be getting someone out to look at it midweek, and can stay with someone until then to save on the bank holday extra...
Edit: I've managed to access it next to the toilet. Had to chip off the tiles next to the loo and remove the plywood o get at the waste pipe. There's an access hole on it luckily ( so why on earth did they tile it over?). Seems the water has slowly seeped through the drain overnight, and after four or five flushes it's filled up again. Can't use the rods as a metre below the access point there's a sharp bend. Gess I'll need to call someone out with a high presure hose, but think I'll leave that til Tuesday. If it can be cleared pretty easily with a hose, how much would I be expecting to pay?
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:27 pm
by lutonlagerlout
what about liquid drain cleaner?
chances are its a build up of soap and hair etc blocking it
plus people still put hot fat down drains which solidifies and causes problems
just a thought
LLL
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:33 pm
by seanandruby
When mine got blocked up that bad, it turned out to be an ashtray, lol. the thing is if it is a solid object and it goes down the pipe then there is a ninety degree bend it has to get around. so you still need to find the manhole to rod it.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:17 am
by matt h
being a drainage engineer amongst other things, I advise that you check that the blockage is not in the pan, or the section of pipe before it reaches the access, as in the past have found whole bog rolls here. Use a wire coat hanger and rod round the bed in the access pipe, or failing that use a garden hose and water pressure hot water if poss as this some times helps to clear fatty deposits. If it doesnt clear almost immediately you'll need a camera job. There has to be an external drain cover somewhere in line with your soil pipe
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:24 am
by matt h
if you have a drain collapse it will cost plenty, but if it is jetable..its down to time and fee for the jet.. try using one shot drain cleaner as a last resort before calling in the jetters. it is caustic so be careful.ensure area well ventilated and use ipe:)
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:32 am
by Dave_L
matt h wrote:Use a wire coat hanger and rod round the bed in the access pipe
Just what I had to do yesterday morning after my 3yr old son filled the pan with bogroll and flushed it. Not good.
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:46 am
by Pavlos
matt h wrote:being a drainage engineer amongst other things, I advise that you check that the blockage is not in the pan, or the section of pipe before it reaches the access, as in the past have found whole bog rolls here. Use a wire coat hanger and rod round the bed in the access pipe, or failing that use a garden hose and water pressure hot water if poss as this some times helps to clear fatty deposits. If it doesnt clear almost immediately you'll need a camera job. There has to be an external drain cover somewhere in line with your soil pipe
As I said, I've accessed the pipe just after where the pan joins it, and after four flushes that has filled up, so it's definitely in the drain.
Sean the sharp bend is only a metre below where I am accessing it next to the toilet, then I guess it's a straight run down to the garden. And the part I can see is not blocked, so it's definitely futher down... So they should be able to use a jetter on that, shouldn't they? Feeding it in from the toilet access point.
I'll try some kind of liquid cleaner first. But surely if it's a gradual build up I would have had the problem earlier in some form? I've been in the house for two months and this is the first time it's happened...
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:21 am
by flowjoe
The problem with the chemical products is you dont know where the blockage is, you could be pouring 600ml of cleaner into a metre of blocked pipework or twenty metres of pipework so the chemicals if they do reach the blockage could be watered down and have no affect.
Be very wary of doing any jetting works from inside the property, there machines pump 12 gallons a minute into the blocked system so if it doesnt clear straight away you will be paddling in the good stuff, Better to try a flexible carbon rod are a mechanical rod first.
Jetting should be around the £70/80 mark for the first hour, dont have anybody on site who charges by the half hour, they come in cheap initially and make camp for the day
Good Luck :;):
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:59 am
by Pavlos
Can I buy my own carbon rods from anywhere? Are they expensive? Don't think I saw them in B&Q...
Cheers for the thoughts on jetting.
I was recommended Dyon-Rod yesterday. Any good? My uncle mentioned they do a 'free' CCTV scan after using the jetter, and if there is work to be done, will do all the claim work with your insurance. I need to check if my insurance would cover anything anyway, but I'm a bit dubious about it...
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:13 pm
by seanandruby
Nothing is for free. they just cane the insurance.
if its down the line all who use it have to cough up.
Make sure they know, you know, what you are talking
about. Dig downs can be expensive.