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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:06 pm
by golfannie
I'l like advice on who is responsible for repair to a damaged surface drain. My house has flooded underneath the floorboards because my neighbour's surace water inspection chamber has over-filled and it is very close to my house. This has caused alot of ground water to seep into the foundations of my house. The surface water runs from his IC through pipes under my front garden and into a another private IC on the other side of my property. An on site CCTV survey has revealed the pipe is made of pitch fibre and has compressed and has root ingression from trees on my property. However it further revealed that my property is not serviced by this section of pipe and therefore my insurance company has said it is up to my neighbour to pay for drain repairs and cost of damage to my property. Is this correct?? Or will I be held liable because it is damage by trees on my property?? Can I decline to have his surface water system cross my boundary?? Previous owner of my house built the property next door and therefore didn't need anyone else's agreement to current drainage layout. Current owner next door is not previous owner of my house. Please help to clarify who is responsible for what.
Many thanks ???
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 5:55 pm
by Dave_L
This is one for flowjoe.......
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:52 pm
by flowjoe
If the drain serves the property next door (takes storm water from the property) then it is the responsibility of the property/ies who use the pipe, no matter who`s garden it is under. This means he pays and you get the disturbance of the repair
If it is a riparian ownership issue, such as a culverted spring then it is your responsability between your boundaries.
Pitch Fibre (drain mans gold) is a dodgy area with regard to being covered by the owners insurance, some pay out but many dont as it is not a sealed service pipe and is such a poor product.
If he does get it on his insurance due to the root ingress it is then up to his insurers to counter claim off yours, but to be honest many dont because they are such close bedfellows they are basically just moving the money around.
Let us know how you go on.
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:45 pm
by lutonlagerlout
pitch fibre a builders nightmare?
ever tried to make a connection on one of these eggs shaped babies?
LLL
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:26 am
by Dave_L
Never had to make such a connection but I bet some polythene gets wrapped around the connection prior to backfilling! 
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:39 am
by lutonlagerlout
you must be telepahic dave
its impossible to make a connection when the pipe is squashed so the lot has to come out or its a bodgerama 
like joe says drain man's gold
LLL
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:54 pm
by golfannie
Thanks for the info - owner of IC on left side of my property with blocked drain under my garden is only one served by that drain for rainwater. Further investigation under floorboards this morning finally found exactly where water was trickling in, and outside found a hole in between lowest bricks where cement was missing. Have used some foam filler inside & out and that seems to have done the trick so far - now it just needs to stop raining!!! Also discovered that neighbour's washing machine drains into his IC - that surely cant be legal as I'm sure it is meant to be just a storm drain! Today have had to use the pump outside to clear rainwater backing up to front of house within 1/4 inch of airbricks and drained into right-hand storm drain (with their permission of course). Did notice a little water coming out from the pipe under my drive so it seems some water is getting thru.
PS - there is no riparian or culvert responsibility, its just my neighbours naivity and ignorance at not checking for blockage - even when his wife said there was a bad smell coming from the washing machine which used to be in the kitchen and he moved to the garage - dont know when though. However am worried about resale of my property in view of other owner's drain under garden - hence my question, can I insist that he seeks alternative route for his rainwater?
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:26 pm
by flowjoe
Firstly if the drain is repaired with modern materials then this will not be an issue when/if you come to sell, it is not uncommon to have somebodies system running across your boundaries.
Im no legal beagle but making the guy move his pipe could be a bit harsh as you both bought the properties in good faith, the fact that the original owner of your site built the site next door could be seen as a guaranteed easement. It may well be the case that there is no other alternative but to pass through your land
Having said that if the guy is being an arse%&le about repairing his drain you can force the issue with your local authority, because it is detrimental to your property they can then serve an order on him to get the work carried out.
Good Luck
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:56 pm
by golfannie
Thanks Flojo.... if we can get an amicable resolution then there'll be no need to persue the easement issue (although I may investigate this further to protect my assurance of future sale as we are just approaching the 20 year rule. But I'm worried that his insurance will not pay out for repair due to our tree roots causing damage to his drain and the fact that drains are made of pitch, or worse claiming damage costs to me. I'm sure if his insurance agrees to pay for repair, everthing can be settled amicably. Have been looking at legal aspect just in case though.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:29 pm
by golfannie
Update on progress so far........
Neighbour has stated repair to only part of the drain will be carried out on 28 March. Am concerned in view of previous comments that PVC cannot be connected to pitch fibre and am also suspicious that he has not made a claim against his own buildings insurance and this is being costed by his emergency call out insurance only, as he has totally ignored the fact we shall be claiming for the the damage to floorboards, subfloor, outside foundations/mortar and gross inconvience of not being able to use my living room for over one month and the fact that I've had to cancel a holiday to deal with this issue. My own insurance company (Halifax) has been very helpful and have stated that they will put pressure on my neighbour after I provided them with his insurance policy number and details. However he did not provide a claim ref no. My insurance company are sending out a damage assessment advisor on 29 March (day after planned repair due to start) so at least we will know what repairs to my house need to be undertaken and likely costs. They have stated they will counter claim against neighbours insurance if it is proven that damage is consequnce purely to his blocked drain. Anyway, we have suggested to our neighbour that the best way forward in the long term interest of both parties is for him to look for an alternative route for his storm water. Although he agreed verbally and stated that he had so many drains on his property and might even be cheaper, I doubt whether he will put himself out to look into this alternative. He is still in denial about the huge relevance of fouling a storm drain with the washing machine discharging into it and is further reason why I would prefer to have him re-route this drain. I have also discussed the legal implications of easements, convents etc with the legal department of my insurance cover and was advised to keep things amicable and that should he refuse to re-route the drain then a neighbour dispute is much worse on a property info document than having someone elses drain running under. I do intend to seek private legal advice to have legal responsibilities and indemnities etc in a formal document so that in the event that we agree to keep the drainage as it is (and only to prevent a neighbour dispute), there is no "grey" area to deter future buyers of my property. It is less than a week away before the planned repair is to take place and I still have no idea whether I need to remove the hedging conifers beforehand, will the company doing the repair restore my driveway back to its current condition etc. I'm getting really fed up of having to do all the leg work myself when it is my neighbour's responsibility and we're having all the inconvenience. The water under the floorboards has subsided now we've had no rain for just over a week. But we've dug a hole in the front lawn deep enough to take the sub pump should we get a repeat of the recent storms to try to redirect the water before it gets a chance to seep thru our foundations. I plan to check with my own insurance company tomorrow on their progress on contacting neighbour, otherwise I will have to approach him myself to find out about his views on re-routing and if that is a negative, then get more details about the repair issues and follow up on the formal legal responsiblity side of things.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:31 pm
by flowjoe
Many of the emergency insurance policy`s (british gas, united utilities) tend to cover up to £500 in repairs and then they tell you to chase your bricks and mortar insurers, so he may just be getting a days work out of them.
What we can`t tell from here is if they have identified one specific point that caused the blockage and subsequent damage, and it is that section they are repairing.
This will work in the short term but if as you say the remainder of the run is pitch fibre then future problems may well occur so your insurers may want a guarantee against future blockages before they renew your cover
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:10 pm
by golfannie
Thanks Flojo, neighbours were out last night and therefore couldn't get an update .. likewise this evening. I think you're right about the blocked location as a particular spot has been marked just left of my driveway with a bamboo cane and I guess thats where they'll start digging. But surely if they find pitch fibre, then commonsense will prevail and they'll replace the whole length???? Its becoming very frustrating as I couldn't get a clear picture from my insurance company etiher about progress they had made, ie had they contacted neighbour direct or his insurance company. All they would say was it was registered as possible counter claim - I guess they will wait until damage assessment next week but thats a my insurance company would have been in touch if they suspected that planned repair work was not going to be satisfactory long term resolution to this problem - I hope!! Have made appt at local solicitor to discuss options (outside of neighbour dispute) and I still feel it in appropriate to report neighbour for fouling storm drain due to immense consequences, but if he cannot give me satisfactory answers at the weekend regarding planned work, restoring my drive etc then I feel I will need to put more pressure on regarding the fouling issue. Any other guidance would be much appreciated