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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:22 pm
by kglen
I am looking for some advice concerning a storm drain which has collapsed between the manhole on my property and the main sewer on the main road. Apparently a 2m section has collapsed and requires replacment. The property is only 5 years old and ANSA who have carried out a site survey have stated that the problem is due to poor installion by the builder.
Without digging a trench to find out how it was constructed I am trying to find out if anyone can advise me on what regulations builders should use when contructing these systems. The pipes are all located at a depth of 1500mm. I know proper construction is to use a bed of grit surrounding the pipe, but is that law? Can anyone advise on what regualtions there are and what should have been done?
The builder is trying to tell me that because I have occasionally driven my car over the path under which the pipes are located (next to my drive) this has caused the collapse and because they used different pipe protection under the path as apposed to what they used under my drive then this is why the pipe has collapsed.
Any advice would be much appreciated.
-Kerr
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:30 am
by flowjoe
There are building regs for drainage installation just like any other trade, so accidental damage due to vehicular movement should not occur on a property of this age if the system was installed correctly.
I assume ansa were working for your insurers, if not contact your insurers for advice, you house will still be covered by NHBC (lol) as it is under ten years old, good luck with that one. But ultimately the defect sound as though it is down to poor installation and therefore the buck should stop with the original contractor.
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:32 am
by kglen
Thanks for the reply. I like how you laughed when you mentioned the NHBC. My insurance is actually with Zurich who have point blank refused to pay for the damage. They keep coming up with excuses not to pay, hence why I am now chasing the original builder of the house. They also are waiving the blame saying it's my car that has caused the damage, but as you say if the drain were installed properley then I would have had no issues.
This is why I am trying to find out what regulations should have been followed when the drain was installed, that at least will give me something to go back to them on.
Looks like my only course of action is to pay for an independant assesment and then consider taking the builder to court, anyone got any opinions on that one? Been tried before? Worth the effort?
Cheers,
-Kerr
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:08 pm
by flowjoe
Properly installed drains at 1500mm deep do not become defective within five years (if ever) in the unlikely event that a disused mine shaft has opened up or a meteor hit one night while you were full of stella and didn`t notice, your builder would be covered on his insurances.
The fact that they are unwilling to even investigate does not bode well.
So my advice at this stage would be to scream at a few people before you pay any more money out.
Your insurer`s who may be working off the report submitted by their preffered contractor, instead of a more experienced loss adjuster (both remember are impartial but who pay`s their wages?) I am constantly amazed at some of the works that insurers pay for, and some of the cast iron, dead cert claims that seem to be thrown out. it is often a case of he who shout`s loudest gets his way. Ok poor workmanship seem`s to be the cause but as a customer should you not recieve some help or advice in where to go next.
NHBC or building control, somebody must of passed the work in the first place.
The builder, write to them saying you are going to fund the works yourself and that you are getting experts from all over the globe, and this is their opportunity to nip it in the bud before they are taken to court and forced to pay an inflated invoice due to all the experts in suits who have put time into the whole affair.
How to install drainage and pipe bedding is covered in the site obviousley an expert witness wii inform you of the rest.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:46 am
by kglen
Thanks very much for the good advice. I have now had the local authority inspector out to look at the problem and he gave me similar advice to the above. I have also had discussions with Wavin (OSMA) who manufacture the drains and they again agree that if properly installed I should be able to drive a bus over it.
What I have now done is send all of this information to the builder and ask them to re-consider. I have also asked the insurers (Zurich) to re-consider as they did pass the property on it's original inspection.
As you say if nobody will budge then my next course of action is to make it legal which I am quite willing to do because there is no way I am willing to pay for someone elses bad work.
So my question to the group is can anyone advise me or point me in the direction of a good independant Engineer whom I can hire to write a report on this and act as a witness if required?
Cheers,
-Kerr
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:37 pm
by TheRobster
I'd agree with the comments here...driving a car a few times over a pipe should not cause it to collapse if it's been built properly, especially if it's at a depth of 1500mm. Sounds to me like a construction defect more than anything. Quite possibly the builder arsed up the bedding details, could be something to check for.
Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:30 pm
by danensis
Zurich will squirm and wriggle. Their contractors made a total dogs bollox of the underpinning on our house - the only bit that went well was done by the subcontractor we nominated.
Half way through the job their consultant threw a paddy because he wasn't goin gto get any more fees, despite being on site nearly every day because there was no supervision. So Zurich decided they weren't going to do any more work. So I now have a half-underpinned house, and rapidly widening cracks.
The insurance Ombudsman is as much use as a chocolate teapot. After 18 months consideration they decided they weren't going to make a decision, and told us to go back to the insurers.
Quite honestly insurance companies make the "we're doing a job in the next street" mob look squeaky clean.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:04 am
by kglen
I have another question for the experts. This issue I have affects 6 houses, all of the houses feed thier storm pipes into the inspection chamber in my garden. However, one of the houses at the end is roughly (to my eye) about 500mm lower than the other houses. Last night we tested the drains by pouring water down from this particular house and it came out as a trickle. Personally I don't think the pipe gradient is suitable and I was wondering if anyone can advise how I can measure the gradient, or if someone can recomend to me a company or Engineer who could carry out a full survey on the area and be willing to act as a witness, should this go to court.
-Kerr