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Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:54 pm
by kev
Please refer to previous topic heading " Water under the Floorboards".
The other day we were really happy that we had found the source of the water under our floorboards. The enviromental health discovered we had a leak in our downpipe that was flowing into the void under the floorboards. So we set about getting it fixed. Got a plumber to fix the downpipe and a company to drain and dry the void. Well we thought that this was the answer....until the guys drained 1300 gallons of water from the void! We don't believe this could have come from the downpipe (toilet) as we have only lived here for 2 months. That was way too much water.....even the guy who drained it was surprised!!!! What the hell is it???? If anyone has any info please let us know as it is freaking us out. I am summising that it is the rainwater from the streets not draining away properly and ending up coming into our house. We live at the bottom of a small incline.. Read our previous topic for more info.....
Please anyone who can offer some glimmer of hope...Where do we begin in trying to find out the source. The Water Board are about as helpful as .....

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:59 pm
by 84-1093879891
To be honest, the company you've employed to effect repairs should be the ones to identify the source of the problem - they have the advantage of being 'on site' whereas we're all stuck behind our monitors at the end of a cable, and can't see the problem at first hand.

The broken pipe may just be a casualty of a larger problem - why did it break? Are there other breaks elsewhere on the system or on adjoining systems? Is there a problem with groundwater that has caused the broken pipe to shift and so break? Is there a leaking water service anywhere? Is there a spring line?

All these questions, and quite a few more, can only be answered by the blokes and blokesses on site. If they can't provide answers, then maybe they're in the wrong trade.

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:10 pm
by kev
:( Two months later and we are still no nearer to finding the source of the water under our floorboards. Since we first discovered water under our floorboards we have been through a lengthy process of elimination! The Envioronmental Health have been most helpful and discovered a leak in our soil stack,which we had repaired. However, water was still pooling at the back of the house under the floorboards. Our next door neighbours went away for a week and suddenly all the water disappeared. When they came back the water came back. So the Environmental Health did a dye test and discovered their soil stack was leaking waste water into the back room of our house, where the water was coming in and pooling. So our neighbours had their soil stack repaired and we all felt that that was the end of the problem. With glee we went away to get over our 2 month nightmare. On returning we thought we would just check for one final time...to our horror the water is back! This morning a drainage company came out and dye tested next door to double check their soil stack was repaired in the correct manner. It was fine , no dye came through, no leaks. So what now? The guy from the drainage company suggested it could be the water table. This is a possibility but the only thing about that is that when our neighbours went away, it rained for two days without stopping and no water came ,so.....it's all so very perplexing. Please if you have any further thoughts could you let us know. The situation is really beginning to get us down. We had to stop all renovation work on our property for the last two months and just cannnot bear the thought of this rather large amount of water under our property with no explanation for how or why it is there!

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 12:23 pm
by danensis
How deep is your sub-floor void, and is the site sloping? If its not too deep, and there is no slope, it should be possible to dig test pits around the site and find the level of the water table.

Another idea that has just occurred to me is to use a CAT generator and dip one end in the water. Then you may be able to trace the route of the water with the CAT tool. I preume the CAT will work on free water as well as on pipes, as long as you put the earth connection far enough away.

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:08 pm
by kev
The subfloor void is approx 2.5ft at the front of the house and slopes to approx 3ft at the back of the house. We have already dug holes at the back and these have filled up with water. We have considered the possibility of the water table rising but this becomes confusing when we consider the water totally disappeared when the neighbours went away and during that time it rained heavily for two days and none of the holes filled up with water, it became very dry, very quickly despite the rain.
Please excuse our ignorance,what is a CAT?

Yours thankfully
Kevin

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:49 pm
by steve r
If the dye test has eliminated the source as being foul water, then what about contacting your local water company.
They are able to do a chemical analysis of the water and tell you if it is mains water by the presence of chlorine.
The clue as you say, is the lack of water when your neighbours are absent.
They could for example have a leak in their heating and hot water system under their own floor.
If this is so, do you know if have had their heating pump replaced? If they do have a leak, the life of the pump is reduced as they don't like fresh water.
Do they have a pond or swimming pool?
If they have a swimming pool then once again the water company should be able to tell you if it is leaking by the chlorine levels.
I thought cat scanners were only able to detect pipes and cables, but I'm not an expert.

Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 8:19 pm
by jones2004
Im not sure if this will help but I tried to find the source of a similar problem and it was an internal soil stack this was not discovered at first as there was an outside soil stack so I did not realise that there was an internal stack. After a lengthy camera survey It was found that the internal stack was still collecting from another area and had a major leak, so the connection to this internal stack was diverted into the outside stack.

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:12 pm
by kev
The latest update in this ongoing nightmare!
Our man from the Enviromental Health came to see us again to double check that there was no water coming from the neighbours drains. He did dye tests in there drains, baths, showers etc. Nothing happened so we thought that we could assume that they had the all clear. We were still no wiser as to where the water was still coming from. Finally before he was about to leave he decided to put some dye on the outside wall where it meets an old slab patio. The cement of this patio has worn and leaves a gap. We poured a bucket of water here and the dye starting to come through in the area under the floorboards. Was this success!! Well we are not sure. We now know that water is entering via bad pointing and patio slabs etc. But.....the Enviromental guy took a sample of the water to get it tested and he has just given me a call to advise that it has a high level of calcium!!!! We were hoping that it would come back as rainwater. Therefore there seems that there still could be another source. He has suggested maybe the neighbours washing machine as it is calcium. Don't know how it can be as all drains etc have been tested. We do not have a washing machine. He told me that calcium can be in the water from washing machine tablets and plaster / cement. A couple of weeks ago we had our whole house walls skimmed. Could the plaster dust have gotten into our pool of water that was covered by the floorboards?? Also the Enviromental guy said that his chemist who tested the water thought it unlikely that the cause of the water would be the patio and wall as explained earlier. Do we need to relay the whole patio and cement it back down again. Also dig next to the exterior wall and point the bricks below the dpc and put a damp proofing layer at this level. Can we just put a temporary cement sealer along the top of the patio slabs for now to see if it stops the water. Don't want to lift the whole patio to find out this is not the source? I'm so confused....

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:42 pm
by Tony McC
I'm not sure where the calcium comes from - it could well be the residue from the recent plastering work.

If, as seems most likely, the water is entering the sub-floor from the patio, then you have no choice other than to get the paving relaid and a proper interceptor drain of some description installed to ensure water can't cause any further problems. As to whether you need re-pointing to the walls and whathaveyou, I can't really say without seeing the site.

It might be time to get a good builder to come and take a look.

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:23 pm
by kev
Dear Tony ,many thanks for your reply. Yes we will need to have the patio area relaid sooner rather than later. However, another symptom has arose which is making us suspicious. The water at various times during the day travels around in a constant clockwise direction. This happens even when there is no rain or significant wind blowing through the air vents. At other times during the day or evening it can be completely still. So perplexed we remain. The only thing we keep going back to is some form of leak from next door. They had a new conservatory laid about a year and half ago. Not sure it was the best job ever done. Yesterday peering over the fence we saw a large hole above the sewer which has not been filled in. This is directly in line with our wall where we have the problem. Yet we don't think that is the cause because it is not raining and water is still moving in a circular motion. Since 8.00am this morning the water has moved constantly. We are keeping an hourly diary . At the moment we can hear some noise from next door which sounds like the central heating or a washing machine, dishwasher. It's impossible to say what is the cause but we hope it is soon located without our neighbours losing their reserve,which so far has been admirable.

Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:41 pm
by Tony McC
The only way you are going to find the cause of this problem is to use a damned good builder or a top drainage bod, someone prepared to put in a few hours eliminating potential causes until the actual culprit is identified. It might not be cheap, but I can't see any other way forward - simply relying on casual observations and the odd bit of input from EH is not going to get anywhere, I'm afraid.