Hi,
I live in an older cottage property in Scotland, and we are in the process of gradually renovating it. Like many houses of this type (so I'm told) the floor joists sit very close to or in the soil sub-floor, or solum as we call it here. One of the first jobs we did, before moving in with the family, was to dig out the solum to be clear of the joists and replace rotten joist sections. The damproofers we employed (very large and dodgy firm as it turned out, I won't name them here), covered the solum with a loose Visqeen sheet. The problem is that the solum is still very damp - I expect it always will be unless I lift the floor entirely and tank and concrete it, and this gives rise to a not always pleasant musty smell. My questions are 1) am I correct in think that this is not too much of a problem unless the damp is rising up the walls, which it isn't, and 2) can anyone advice me on an adequate means of preventing damp air from rising from the solum, maybe by improving on the plastic covering?
Any advice gratefully received.
Reuben
Damp Solum/Sub-floor
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84-1093879891
1 - it's not too much of a problem, usually. If it's getting on your nerves, try a de-humidifier to extract the excess moisture in the air, which helps reduce the odour problem, allegedly.
2 - not really sure, short of lining the solum and tanking the lot. This is more a task for a building surveyor.
2 - not really sure, short of lining the solum and tanking the lot. This is more a task for a building surveyor.
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danensis
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If you waterproof the floor the damp will come up the walls.
The first thing to do is to make sure no water is coming in - have you got drainage all round the outside of the house that will stop groundwater getting under the walls?
The second thing to do is to improve the subfloor ventilation - ordinary airbricks probably won't work in a rubble filled wall, but I have used 9 inch SGS pipes through a wall to provide a free flow of air.
The first thing to do is to make sure no water is coming in - have you got drainage all round the outside of the house that will stop groundwater getting under the walls?
The second thing to do is to improve the subfloor ventilation - ordinary airbricks probably won't work in a rubble filled wall, but I have used 9 inch SGS pipes through a wall to provide a free flow of air.
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Manx guy
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well as a trained damp technician the problem with putting down visqueen is that what moisture there is in the sub floor is going to collect on the plastic thus giving you the smell and also this can be a breeding ground for dry rot.
best way to solve the problem is sub floor ventilation as danensis stated getting enough air in there will dry out the area and get rid of any chance of dry rot getting a hold.
i have been in houses with a small spring running under the house and the only reason it aint damp is they had plenty of 9 inch by 6 inch lovered air bricks to vent the area sounds like who ever done your remedial work are a couple of john waynes never have i heard of putting visqueen down unless for concrete you will need a minimum of 2 airbricks in the front and the same in the back good luck
p.s make sure you get any wood from under the floor as this can spark off a dry rot attack
best way to solve the problem is sub floor ventilation as danensis stated getting enough air in there will dry out the area and get rid of any chance of dry rot getting a hold.
i have been in houses with a small spring running under the house and the only reason it aint damp is they had plenty of 9 inch by 6 inch lovered air bricks to vent the area sounds like who ever done your remedial work are a couple of john waynes never have i heard of putting visqueen down unless for concrete you will need a minimum of 2 airbricks in the front and the same in the back good luck
p.s make sure you get any wood from under the floor as this can spark off a dry rot attack
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ReubenDiaz
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:12 pm
- Location: Fife, Scotland
Thanks to everyone who has replied. I think I definitely need to vastly improve the subfloor ventilation. The wall is of hefty rubble construction, about 16" think, but reckon I need to make the appropriate holes and get some pipes in as recommended. There isn't enough room under the floor to get these below floor level, and even if I dug out deep enough, then I would probably damage the DPC by going through at that level, so I think I need to go higher and somehow duct the air down below floor level.
Incidentally, not a couple of John Waynes - a whole cavalry platoon of the buggers masquerading as a national damproofing franchise. Its one of those if I knew then what I know now situations, but I really wish I had never paid them a penny, as I'm having to redo so much of the work myself. As it is, the withheld my so-called guarantees as I refused to pay them for woodworm treatment they claimed to have carried out, but had not done - actually I'm not being fair, they must have done something, as they left an empty aerosol can of B&Q woodworm treatment behind. Don't think they did my whole loft with that somehow. Don't get me started....
Is there some kind of professional organisation who will handle complaints about this kind of nonsense?
R.
Incidentally, not a couple of John Waynes - a whole cavalry platoon of the buggers masquerading as a national damproofing franchise. Its one of those if I knew then what I know now situations, but I really wish I had never paid them a penny, as I'm having to redo so much of the work myself. As it is, the withheld my so-called guarantees as I refused to pay them for woodworm treatment they claimed to have carried out, but had not done - actually I'm not being fair, they must have done something, as they left an empty aerosol can of B&Q woodworm treatment behind. Don't think they did my whole loft with that somehow. Don't get me started....
Is there some kind of professional organisation who will handle complaints about this kind of nonsense?
R.
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84-1093879891
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Sean Buxton
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- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:13 am
- Location: East Midlands
Take your complaint to the British Wood-Preserving and Damp Proofing Association at www.bwpda.co.uk. If this is a national firm, it would seem likely they are a registered member and you should get some results. Even if they are not, it is still worth the effort. The organisation is based in Derby. E-mail is info AT bwpda DOT co DOT uk
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84-1093879891
I edited your post above, Sean, to protect the email address you quoted from the evil spambots. You should never quote an email adress in its standard form on any website or forum, because it will be harvested by the spambots and before you know it, the unlucky recipient will be knee-deep in prescription drugs and US-based mortgage offers.
If you must use an email adress, munge it in some way to protect, as I have done above. That way, the bastard spammers can't use it! :)
If you must use an email adress, munge it in some way to protect, as I have done above. That way, the bastard spammers can't use it! :)
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Sean Buxton
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 11:13 am
- Location: East Midlands
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danensis
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- Location: Derbyshire
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Remember that most of these "trade" associations are there to protect the trade not the public. I can't think of one that will put its money where its mouth is and take a member to court on behalf of a customer. Indeed as a customer has no contract with a trade assocaition, there is no way that a customer can enforce a trade association's claims.
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115-1093880813
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ReubenDiaz
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 5:12 pm
- Location: Fife, Scotland
Well, this is an interesting debate I've inadvertently kicked off. I agree with the comment that trade associations are there for their members interests, not the customers. My perception, and please feel free to disagree, is that the aim of trade associations is to give their members credibility in the eyes of the consumer by providing accreditations (of what value?), logos etc in order to persuade the paying customer that his money will be well spent with their members.
Working on this house is the first time I've really had to deal with any contractors on a reasonable scale, and at first I always chose to deal with accredited pros, not fly-by-nights, thinking this was the way to get the job done. The damp proofing company I chose are a very large national, even global, concern, to judge by their website. They did a shockingly poor job for me, made a terrible mess, and ran literally weeks over schedule. Now that I understand more about the job I realise that by reading books and making use of resources like this I could easily have done the job myself, and done it much better.
I also had the house re-plumbed and central heating installed by a fully accredited SNIPEF plumber. Every single thing he installed leaked, including the heating. I redid the lot myself - it doesn't leak anymore.
I am the kind of person who will complain if things are done wrongly, but I also figure that if someone doesn't do a job right first time, what is the chance of them doing better second time round? I don't want them back in my house - I'd rather do it myself. It make take me longer, but I know that I will do it as well as I possibly can.
Don't get me wrong - I know that there are very skilled and conscientious tradesman around, but one thing I've found is that accreditations and trade association membership is no guide to the quality of work delivered, and to be honest, I think my energy might be better spent than submitting to some dodgy complaints procedure. What would they do? Give me my money back? Unlikely! Do the job properly? They had a chance do that once - that's all I want to give them.
And I still have a damp solum... plan to core drill a couple of holes this weekend to run vents through.
R.
Working on this house is the first time I've really had to deal with any contractors on a reasonable scale, and at first I always chose to deal with accredited pros, not fly-by-nights, thinking this was the way to get the job done. The damp proofing company I chose are a very large national, even global, concern, to judge by their website. They did a shockingly poor job for me, made a terrible mess, and ran literally weeks over schedule. Now that I understand more about the job I realise that by reading books and making use of resources like this I could easily have done the job myself, and done it much better.
I also had the house re-plumbed and central heating installed by a fully accredited SNIPEF plumber. Every single thing he installed leaked, including the heating. I redid the lot myself - it doesn't leak anymore.
I am the kind of person who will complain if things are done wrongly, but I also figure that if someone doesn't do a job right first time, what is the chance of them doing better second time round? I don't want them back in my house - I'd rather do it myself. It make take me longer, but I know that I will do it as well as I possibly can.
Don't get me wrong - I know that there are very skilled and conscientious tradesman around, but one thing I've found is that accreditations and trade association membership is no guide to the quality of work delivered, and to be honest, I think my energy might be better spent than submitting to some dodgy complaints procedure. What would they do? Give me my money back? Unlikely! Do the job properly? They had a chance do that once - that's all I want to give them.
And I still have a damp solum... plan to core drill a couple of holes this weekend to run vents through.
R.
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84-1093879891
I agree with you about Trade Associations, and I am so concerned about the so-called "Approved" contractors schemes that are used in the residential driveway business that I've written about them on this site in the hope of educating the general public that, just because "Bodgit and Leggit Paving" have paid several hundred quid to join such-and-such a scheme is no guarantee that their work is any better than the next bloke.
More disturbing, I hear of cases on a weekly basis where dissatisfied clients of so-called 'Approved Contractors' have been supremely underwhelmed with the response from the companies promoting the scheme when they have a legitimate concern.
Membership of any trade body is no guarantee of a problem-free installation. It can help sort the worst of the cowboys from the rest, because there's no way they would want to fork out several hundred quid, plus VAT, and they are always loathe to give info such a trading address, insurance details and vat reg number. However, checking out contractors by speaking to previus clients and viewing previous work 'in the flesh' is always a far better reference than plucking a name from a list based on your postcode.
If you want to read my fuller thoughts on these scams...ooops, I meant schemes, have a look at the Approved Contractors page.
More disturbing, I hear of cases on a weekly basis where dissatisfied clients of so-called 'Approved Contractors' have been supremely underwhelmed with the response from the companies promoting the scheme when they have a legitimate concern.
Membership of any trade body is no guarantee of a problem-free installation. It can help sort the worst of the cowboys from the rest, because there's no way they would want to fork out several hundred quid, plus VAT, and they are always loathe to give info such a trading address, insurance details and vat reg number. However, checking out contractors by speaking to previus clients and viewing previous work 'in the flesh' is always a far better reference than plucking a name from a list based on your postcode.
If you want to read my fuller thoughts on these scams...ooops, I meant schemes, have a look at the Approved Contractors page.
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Manx guy
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- Location: Isle of man
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if i was you i would get intouch with soverign they are a damp and timber supplier in barrow in furness.
i know john my local rep he supllies my brother because he is a damp proofer and to be honest with you i have not found a company as good as them.
great bunch and will tell you a local approved contractor in your area worth a try
i know john my local rep he supllies my brother because he is a damp proofer and to be honest with you i have not found a company as good as them.
great bunch and will tell you a local approved contractor in your area worth a try