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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:48 pm
by Brookie1988
Hi I have just had quite a large (over 50sqm) patio laid. The guy I used had loads of recommendations for patios and lots of positive feedback on my builder and check a trade.
I wasn’t sure at the start as he was available at a few days notice but he seemed to get going on first day with groundwork. Second day and he laid the majority of paving and I thought it looked very uneven, however thought as it hadn’t been pointed might just be me. Came home tonight to it finished and just doesn’t look what I thought it would. It just looks uneven at the edges of the patio and the pointing doesn’t come up to the top of paving. Was charged £60 sqm if that is the going rate?
Thank you
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:25 am
by lutonlagerlout
going rates vary across the country ,but £60 a metre sounds cheap,also sounds like he did it very quickly
did he put in a sub base?
have you any pictures to share?
cheers LLL
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 8:55 am
by Brookie1988
There was already a concrete sub base down from an old extension. He did have to extend it slightly but put plenty of hardcore down and that was the first day.
This is before the gaps were filled in yesterday morning when I thought it looked poor. Picture from this morning also attached below. I’m going to fill the gaps in today as I think that is why it doesn’t look great but feedback greatly appreciated.
First day was pulling up some of the existing concrete to level and then ripping up grass and laying subbase. 2nd day he laid majority of paving and 3rd finished off paying and pointed. All in it took 2 guys, occasionally a 3rd on-site about 20 hours.
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:10 am
by Tony McC
I don't bother with FaceBook so I can't access your images.
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 10:18 am
by Brookie1988
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:45 pm
by alrat
Hmm, it's hard to tell as it's a very rustic looking slab and the sizes aren't even, but it doesn't look like a very professional job. I'm most concerned about the pictures that show quite a significant slope at the edge row of slabs, while the others are more level. Looks like they couldn't be bothered to get the level right.
You'll need to wait until the pointing is dry, but you must make sure they've incorporated the right fall (slope) so water drains off properly and away from your property, I'd be very concerned about this from the pics. Definitely worth testing with a hose. Also did they seal the slabs before pointing? This helps avoid picture framing.
I think you're right to be concerned, it doesn't look as good as it could, but cosmetically is looks ok, you just need to ensure the fundamentals have been followed or you'll be left with problems further down the line.
I'm just a DIYer by the way, so no real expertise behind my post, but I spent a long time researching best practice to lay my own recently, so do know a bit. Don't take my post as gospel, just trying to help.
Al.
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:22 pm
by lutonlagerlout
wow... it looks very rustic
what have they pointed it with?
it seems to have a fall straight into an earth bank? where will the water go?
did they use a Line to lay the slabs? from the pictures it appears not
LLL
Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:01 pm
by Brookie1988
They did peg it all out before laying. I think I will take your advice and hose the patio to ensure it falls the right way (which I do have a concern about). Pointing was very shoddy which I think made it look worse. When they hosed it yesterday it looked ok but as it started to dry you could see gaps.
I was worried from the outset. I’ll be comfortable as long as it doesn’t flood, sure I can fix the pointing.
Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:10 am
by Tony McC
It's not good.
The use of courses tells me the installer isn't all that familiar with layouts, and then the awful variation in joint width, combined with poor alignment serves to reinforce the view that this is an amateur bodger rather than an experienced paving professional.
You have to decide whether you can live with it or not. I would not tolerate it, but then I expect quality work for quality money, and it's the sort of thing that, if left unfixed, would niggle away at me for years to come.
Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:26 pm
by Highworth paving
I’d complain to check a trade because they clearly haven’t checked them out. Did you ask them to lay it like that( in courses). Sorry I’d be asking for my money back but good luck in whatever you decide to do about it
Regards
Craig
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:39 pm
by doobin
It's a pretty shoddy job. However, there was already a base there. Spon's price book 2016 says
"Indian sandstone, riven pavings or edgings; calibrated +/−26 mm thick; on prepared base measured separately; bedding on 25 mm cement:sand (1:3); cement: sand (1:3) joints.
laid to coursed laying pattern; 3 sizes, £70.30/m2. "
You'd normally add around 20-40% to the book price, to allow for profit and site conditions. So you paid £10 a metre less than the industry bible's 'going rate without any profit'- from 2016 too- and you got some extra base thrown in.
I'm sure in retrospect you'd have rather paid the going rate including profit for a decent job. However, I can't see that you were 'ripped off' in the classical sense of the phrase- ie, top money AND a shoddy job.
basically he's pricing too cheap and cutting corners to do so.
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:24 pm
by doobin
Just downloaded Spons 2018. Including site overheads and profit they are saying £83.39/m2 for the spec in the post above now. So you paid £23.39/m less, or over 50m2 around £1170 less than the 'going rate'.
Trouble is, can you get it to a state where you are happy with it for £1170?
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:56 pm
by lutonlagerlout
its been a Loooong time since I did a patio for les than £100 Per metres 2 plus VAT
but I like to do it right
LLL
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:56 pm
by doobin
lutonlagerlout wrote:its been a Loooong time since I did a patio for les than £100 Per metres 2 plus VAT
but I like to do it right
LLL
Agree mate. At least he wasn't charged £110/m plus VAT!
Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:20 pm
by lutonlagerlout
as in life you get what you pay for
pay cheap pay twice
but sadly a lot of customers dont know the correct job or price until its too late
LLL :;):