The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:06 am**

Firstly I hope I'm posting this in the correct thread, if not please accept my apologies.
Ok then so heres my issue.
About 6 months ago I had a patio laid with Indian Sand Stone, after it had been down for about 3 months (waiting for the bed to fully dry out) I sealed the stone with Smart Seal (Enhanced colour), I wanted the colours of the stone show up their deep rich colour, which I have to say this sealer did lovely.
I believe this sealer is an impregnating type of sealer ?
So moving on a few more months now, I started to notice that there seemed to be salt marks coming around the edges of the stone, I guess from the sand/cement jointing, STUPIDLY I tried removing this with diluted brick acid cleaner, yep big no no !
Things looked ok, albeit very slight staining to some of the stones, which wasn't to bad (should of left it alone really), but I decided to apply another coat of sealer as I had read that it may help to hide the staining a bit better, so yesterday I applied the sealer exactly as I did first time round, it seemed to soak in and afterwards looked great, no residue left on the stones and dried out nicely, could still see the staining but it all looked fresh and more vibrant again.
However over night, about 10 hours after applying the sealer it has rained and I can now clearly see the milky coloured sealer under the surface water, in fact I can even see the roller marks all over the stones.
So firstly how do I remove this residue, is there a product to do this ?
Secondly why has this happened ?
My first thoughts where the rain 10 hours later, but thinking about it now, yesterday afternoon was a lovely day and it didn't rain until very early hours, so I think the sealer would of had time to dry, it was touch dry within a few hours !

I'm now wondering if this second application hasn't actually absorbed due to the stone already being sealed a few months ago, even though to the eye it looked as though it was being absorbed ?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:09 am**

Sounds like you have moisture under the sealer, and that brand of sealer comes into the Thompsons paving ruiner class.
The sealer hadn't completely dried before the rain, plus the 1st coat was letting the 2nd coat though so it just sat there.

You need to strip it off and start again, not an easy job for a home-owner.

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:22 pm**

Thanks for the reply, and advice, which I was fearing would be the answer if I'm honest

I am surprised though that this particular sealer runs alongside the Thompson brand, it's certainly up there in cost with "top shelf" brands.

You suggest stripping it of, which I guessed might be the only solution but heres there thing......

Theres nothing on the surface to strip off, nothing shiny or varnishy, if you get my meaning....
By that I mean nothing flaking, peeling or blistering, just a milky look to the slabs, it's as if the sealer has soaked in and altered the colour by going this milky white colour.

Is there a product that might break down the sealer and then have it pressure washed off ?

The product itself doesnt go off like a varnish type of finish, its not sticky to the touch, and even when its dried around the container lid theres no hard sticky peel left around the lid, if you know what I mean.
It's a very watery milky liquid, hence (apparently) it's an impregnating sealer and dont sit on the top of the slabs(according to manufacture details) like say Thompsons would.

In fact the manufactures details mention how difficult this is to remove purely because it dont sit on the top of the slab ?

Long shot here, but do you work in the Swansea area ?
If not is there someone you can recommend ?

I appreciate you time and patience .
Thanks
Kerry.

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 2:55 pm**

What are you classing as expensive for the smart seal product??

The paving will need a strip/removal of all that product, might not be fully on the surface but the capillaries will/should be full of sealer, so you need to remove it before using another brand etc.

Its a milky fluid to start with as water based, hence why you have the milkiness now, the 2nd cost couldn't get past the 1st coat and has dried out on the surface giving you that effect.

Water based strippers can be a pain to remove, you could try this one, https://www.extensive.co.uk/wax-off-5l.html
It might work seeing as it has something to get a hold of, the milky finish.

No I don't cover your area, based in West London.

You could get in touch with Tiling Logistics based in Birmingham as they will have a database of good stones experts and may have someone they can recommend in your area.

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:46 pm**

I paid Â£100 for 5ltr, exc delivery, which I thought was expensive compared to something like Thompsons Â£19.95 for 5ltrs.

I applied it by roller, 2 coats originally (about 3 months ago), and another 2 coats the day before yesterday which is what gave the issues I've mentioned.

Oddly, today its looking better than yesterday, far better in fact ?

The milky looking stains were looking particularly bad when the rain had settled on it the morning after applying, but when it dried out it almost disappeared, so I soaked it again this morning with a hose just to see if the milky colour came back with water on it, but it seemed ok, just some water beading on the slabs.
Again when dried it's looking better, so I'm hoping things might improve over the next few days ?

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:45 pm**

Water beading is what you are looking for, nothing wrong with that, sealer is doing it's job.

So after it rains or you use a hosepipe it improves??
How does it look when completely dry, patchy at all?

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:46 pm**

The price you paid is more then smartseals web-site states?

Posted: **Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:28 pm**

The milky whiteness seems to be fading.
It looked very apparent initially after the first day of rain, I tried wiping it to see if it would come off through the surface water but it didnt budge, then when it dried out after the rain it seemed to be less apparent and now today nothing when its dry so I soaked it with the hose to see if it appeared and it seemed ok.

It's odd, because after I applied it I made sure there was no left over residue, I actually went back over it with a dry towel to dab up any little remaining patch's, but the next morning after the rain and while still wet from the rain it looked exactly like it did when I first applied it, milky white.

Its as if the rain pulled it back to the surface, but it has now soaked back in and hopefully dried out.

As for the price, I think its dropped to Â£86 per 5 ltr for the" Enhanced colour" sealer.

Posted: **Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:33 am**

You might get lucky with this one, being a water based sealer, and the 2nd coats couldn't get past the 1st coat as the 1st coat is still in-tact etc, the 2nd coat had not dried when the rain came in, so in effect pulled it to the surface and leaving the milky finish, then when you hosed the paving down, same thing is happening, so sounds like bit by bit the 2nd coat is being "washed" away as it hasn't or won't cure/dry properly. I'd leave it now for a few days to see what it look's like etc.

Posted: **Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:32 pm**

Yeah I think you've hit the nail on the head.

A close call though.
I've seen images of Indian Sand Stone completely ruined by sealer issues.
The first morning after the rain, in fact it was still raining, it looked a right mess, I couldnt believe the difference once it had dried out.
I think your right in saying it's basically washing away slowly as it didnt get time to dry due to the rain, and it really did pour down the night I applied it.

The Brew Cabin

Help/ advice !!! - Sealer problem