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Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 9:19 pm
by hopeful
Hi there, I think I may have found this forum in the nick of time. I was all set to kick of ordering stone and getting the work started on a new patio and path around the house (most of it replacing an old patio and path that are already there) - all in about 90 square meters, but having read some of the threads on here I'm having huge doubts!
We chose rainbow sandstone - just because we like how it looks and was a good price, but seeing some of the horror stories I'm not sure if it's a good idea!! Also, the work was going to be done by the same builder who we've just used, who did an excellent job on a conservatory and indoor renovations, but I'm now concerned that maybe he won't have the right experience!
His quote for the work basically includes 2 solid weeks of himself and his labourer and the detail is: Remove old patio slabs. Dig out 2 inches below ground level. Concrete in edging stones. Supply and lay scalping and hardcore sub base and whack until completely solid. Lay customer supplied sand stone measuring around 90sqm. Point using chemical based pointing solution (pavefix) Dig soakaway and use customer supplied crates Supply pipework for soakaway.
So - I guess my questions are:
a) Rainbow sandstone - yes (if done properly and sealed etc) or no, don't touch with a barge pole
b) Do the details of the quote sound reasonable? I noticed he doesn't say anything about what goes between the sub-base and the paving...what questions should I be asking him to make sure this is going to be done properly and to test he knows what he's talking about?
I really want this to be a decent job and last for many many years, so all and any advice gratefully received!!
Thanks.
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 11:22 pm
by digerjones
Ask him if he knows sbr, bondbridge. 2" doesn't sound much.
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:38 am
by KeburDave
There is a reason Rainbow Sandstone is cheap, its extremely porous and soft, I would not lay it unless it has been pre-sealed with a good impregnating sealer like Drytreat Stainproof or Lithofin Stain Stop and because it is like a sponge and soaks up everything it would take at least 2 or even 3 good coats and when you add this to the cost of the slab your not far off the price of a Porcelain slab. You can seal 3 or 4 months after you have laid the paving but if you are north facing with any overhanging trees it doesn't take long for that paving to go green which makes the cleaning of the stone before sealing difficult. The paving must have an SBR slurry primer applied to the underside of the slab this is essential. I haven't heard very good reports about Pavefix on this particular type of slab as you want to keep the joints reasonably tight and consistent I would be using Gftk vdw 815, but I would definitely pre-seal the paving first even with a mist spray first to stop any resin staining. 90 sq/mtrs is a big investment so it needs to be belts and braces.
Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 6:19 pm
by lutonlagerlout
2 weeks for 2 men sounds ambitious for 90m2 of quality paving from start to finish
I wouldnt lay rainbow as its cheap and nasty
about as good as wallpapering your grass
LLL
Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 8:49 pm
by hopeful
Thanks for the replies - sorry for my delay, been enjoying the bank holiday!! I've spoken with the chap and he's said all the right things, so I'm feeling more confident in his abilities, but am going to do some more research on the material before we commit!
Can anyone suggest some alternatives that I can look at instead of rainbow sandstone? Basically, my requirements are: I want a smooth top finish, so the kids can scoot/skate without getting hiccups. I want it to have a natural looking variation in colour. I want it to be low maintenance! Price wise, ceiling of £50/m2 if it doesn't need to sealed, less if we have to account for sealing or other treatments on top. Does that sound reasonable?
Cheers!
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 4:28 pm
by lutonlagerlout
the problem is with a lot of sawn stone is that it is very susceptible to staining as the sawing process seems to open up a lot of small capillaries that you do not get with riven stone,My personal fave is Jura beige limestone but at £65 +VAT this blows your budget,Harvest sawn from london stone is £45+VAT and is a nice stone but could do with being pre sealed.
the kota limestones are also well thought of but really you need to go somewhere and look at these before you make a big investment
cheers LLL
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:25 pm
by PavingSuperstore
If low maintenance is important, would porcelain be an option for you? This starts from £34 incl VAT per m2 for Italian porcelain from leading brands, so is well within your budget. There will always be a certain amount of aftercare with natural stone so unless you are dead set on this, then you may find the ease of porcelain would be suitable for your requirements.
Regards,
George
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 9:20 pm
by hopeful
Thanks - we did look at some porcelain paving in Coomers and wasn't too keen on the colours and it was about £60/m2 - but that said, they also told us there was no such thing as a smooth surfaced natural stone!!! If we can find one that has a nice natural look with some variation then it could be a good option, so I'll have a bit of a scout. Cheers.
Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:25 pm
by lutonlagerlout
ditto what George said
only the hardest of natural stones are low maintenance
LLL
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:45 am
by KeburDave
If your not far from Coomers, call in and see us at Kebur, we've got a couple of large displays showing natural stone, a reasonably low maintenance natural stone we have is called Elite Buff Sandstone at £40 sq/mtr, this has a sandblasted and brushed finish so is not as prone to staining as a honed finish sandstone and has a nice variation in colours.
We can pre-seal this if required.
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:02 pm
by hopeful
KeburDave wrote:If your not far from Coomers, call in and see us at Kebur, we've got a couple of large displays showing natural stone, a reasonably low maintenance natural stone we have is called Elite Buff Sandstone at £40 sq/mtr, this has a sandblasted and brushed finish so is not as prone to staining as a honed finish sandstone and has a nice variation in colours.
We can pre-seal this if required.
That's funny - my first flat was about 1/2 a mile from you 
We're down near Alton now, but might see if we can pop in on the weekend! Thanks.
Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 2:12 pm
by hopeful
PavingSuperstore wrote:If low maintenance is important, would porcelain be an option for you? This starts from £34 incl VAT per m2 for Italian porcelain from leading brands, so is well within your budget. There will always be a certain amount of aftercare with natural stone so unless you are dead set on this, then you may find the ease of porcelain would be suitable for your requirements.
Regards,
George
I quite like this one https://www.pavingsuperstore.co.uk/by-mate....bs.html
It looks similar to rainbow sandstone in the picture, but not quite so "loud".
With porcelain, does it have to be treated in any way, or is it just a case of lay it and leave it (with the occasional wash down?).
Thanks!
Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 2:42 pm
by PavingSuperstore
It's far more toned down in colour than rainbow sandstone. We should have some new budget porcelain ranges coming soon, so we can help you with these as well and send samples if required. Porcelain doesn't need treating at all - the initial laying is slightly different and cutting requires more specialised tools, but once down, it holds pretty much no moisture which means it won't attract algae etc, so it is exceptionally easy to care for just requiring an occasional wash.