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Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 5:54 pm
by Dicksons
Hi there
We have just had our garden patio re done and have a few questions! It's quite a large area and the slabs are various sizes. The guys used a 6:1 cement to sand mortar on top of a hardcore base. They then used the grout that you can brush in which I believe is fairly new but recommended and flexible.
Issue is after two days we noticed quite a few rocking slabs and with barely any encouragement these were pulled up. All of the slabs along our steps also came up. The guy has said that the mortar base is not intended to stick to the slabs and it is the grout that should hold them in place... He also admitted there were rockers and said this may have been because they were stood On ... Trouble is I saw them standing all over a lot of them!! Also, I have read that the mortar base doesn't need to necessarily adhere to the slabs but how on earth are they expected to stay put, for example on the edges where only 3 sides of the slab have grout on? We have lost faith entirely after he said "well you will always be able to pull them up if they are on the edge but they are there to be stepped on." I have never seen slabs this loose? Some dolook set to be fair but how long for?
We are so confused and would appreciate any help. They are saying that tomorrow they will return and replace any rockers individually by digging/cutting out the base and redoing under each slab but won't this weaken the base around the others? Please tell me what you suggest?
Thanks so much
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 6:38 pm
by GB_Groundworks
there are two schools of paving gernrally speaking bound and unbound, unbound you generally find on commercial projects where large unit pavers or slabs are used and are retained at all sides so they can't move or be lifted
but with a domestic patio they should be adhered to the bedding material, he's talking bollocks about the polymeric jointing compound sticking them down
did they use a building (fine) sand to mix the bedding mortar or a course sharp/plastering sand like they should have?
do you have any pictures?
i closed the duplicated post
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 7:31 pm
by Dicksons
Thanks so much for your reply! Really sorry I'm not sure how to upload images on here from my phone??
Not sure whether to let them come back tomorrow when seemingly they aren't doing it properly? The ones that are held in place presumably are just held by the grout because the same mixture was used underneath all!
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:56 pm
by Dicksons
Anyone able to advise please?
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:27 pm
by GB_Groundworks
have you paid them yet?
You can email me the pics I'll put them up
Giles at gbgroundworks dot com
Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:32 pm
by Dicksons
Just emailed you Giles- thanks so much.
As you can see they have left a large lip/overhang on the step that to us seems ridiculous as the step is quite narrow as it is! They cemented this in place but that didn't adhere.
As said they are offering to replace all slabs that rock but we don't feel confident in how this would be achieved? No payment made yet!
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:49 am
by Dicksons
Anyone else any experience of this happening to them? We have told them not to come back for now! He just emailed me this...
I have gone through them and marked the rocker slabs to be rebeded.
This is a standard thing in natural paving and anyone who says they don't get rockers are blatant liars!
The steps are another issue and talking to my labour this morning I now know this issue there and it's my fault for not keeping an eye on him. I left him to bed the edge step slabs on a bed of wet mortor to stick but half way along he run out so thought it would be OK to lay them on screed and point under the next day, this is wrong!
These can be re-done properly.
I've taped them off and as they are unsafe and would not want any persons on them please.
However on Friday they assured us it was all safe and we only noticed they were wobbly when my son slipped on one of he steps! It's not just the steps anyway it's the whole patio....
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:37 pm
by GB_Groundworks
I'll put pics up later won't let me do it on my phone
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:13 pm
by GB_Groundworks
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:25 pm
by GB_Groundworks
i can't get them the right way up at the mo, i have a degree in computer science and I'm a photographer you'd think it'd be easy they display correct on flikr but when copied rotate! ill stick them in photoshop and try again
fyi utter bollocks the quality tradesmen on here don't get rockers in natural stone, if bedded correctly with a bond bridge as well you shouldn't have any rockers!
his step overhang is a joke looks like 60-80mm should be 25mm max no wonder they haven't stayed on with the mechanical advantage of the leverage if standing on the front edge
Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:35 pm
by GB_Groundworks
id have made sure there were no small unit slabs on the top step so they were all the larger units but maintaining the random pattern.
the random pattern isn't very good either strikes me as inexperienced or doesn't know any better
i always use a bond bridge on steps of sbr and cement and i use sbr in my general laying mix as well sticks like sh1t to a blanket
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:06 pm
by Dicksons
Thank you so much for your reply, so helpful. We knew that this wasn't right and are gutted to have been left with such a terrible job. Had another paver round that my family have used before and he also said the result is 'shocking.' He also discovered that they have laid the cheapest possible drainage and not cut at 45 degrees but rather cut square at each corner and drilled a small hole leaving no room for water to flow... Meaning it will most definitely flood. It's also full of grout and cement! Trouble is the guys that did it are chasing payment. Do you know where we stand? We are considering just paying materials as of course we are going to need to pay someone else to pull it all up and start again?!
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:48 pm
by DempseyLiverpool
Cant say I've ever had any rockers with stone.... As Giles says he's talking nonsense the problems you have are solely down to poor workmanship.
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:53 pm
by lutonlagerlout
rockers are for pikeys
its a pisspoor job
all flags are laid on a wettish bed with sbr in the mix
if he successful manages to stick down the loose ones (unlikely on a screed bed) you may have to live with it
LLL
