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Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:00 pm
by pavingnightmare
Hi
I am new to paving and what seemed to be a great enhancement to the house has turned out in a complete nightmare.
I have had Globalstone Serenity buff brown installed about 6 weeks ago. It's really beautiful, but so delicate! Anything leaves marks! We have had just one lunch and it has left marks which I am not able to remove just with water. I must have it sealed before winter. I would be grateful if you could send recommendations on types of sealant, or, even better, specific products, and also recommendations on regular maintenance. I acknowledge that if I follow your advise, that would be entirely at my own risk and I will be the only one responsible if get any problems.
Also, the gaps have been filled with kiln dried block paving sand, which I am still topping up. Do you agree with this method or would you have done it differently?
Thank you so much for your advise!
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:34 pm
by msh paving
kiln dry sand is a total bodge, it need to be pointed with a product such as marshall weatherpoint 365, or similar not geofix,, a good man could use sand cement,
did you get a contractor to do it, if so get him back as it totally poor job, please post some pics
stains you need to use a product such as lithofins stain stop MSH 
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:57 pm
by lutonlagerlout
what exactly left the marks?
as mark said no professional would use KDS for jointing unless agreed beforehand
sealing is an ongoing thing and costs lots of money to do right
think before you jump in
if the patio is completely dry lithofin MN stainstop and dry treat are 2 med/high end invisible sealants
LLL
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:33 pm
by sy76uk
Kiln dried sand on a patio?
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:14 am
by pavingnightmare
Thank you so much for your replies. To answer your questions, this was done by a contractor, the gaps are minimal and it was his decision to fill them with sand. The mark would be from either food or drinks, difficult to say. I don't have a photo of the mark at the moment, but can show you how the slabs are laid so you can confirm if dried sand was definitely a bad choice, see photo. I must find a solution to make this more practical... 
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:45 am
by Tony McC
Smooth-ish or shot-blasted flagstones laid with narrow joints are one of the curent 'fashions' for patio paving but too many contractors are opting to use unbound KDS for the joints. They sort-of know that a normal sand-cement mortar won't last 5 mins in such narrow joints, and they also know that pointing narrow joints almost inevitably causes stains. So, they take the easy option and use KDS safe in the knowledge that the problems with an unbound jointing medium won't become apparent until after the cheque has cleared.
Sometimes, the decision to use unbound KDS stems from the fact that they are eejits and not aware of specialist narrow joint materials or the sand stabilisres that would render KDS suitable, and sometimes it's because they are bone-idle and just can't be arsed.
If you want to stick with the KDS, get a stabiliser to 'glue' together the sand grains which helps ensure it stays in place. Alternatively, use a jet washer tro blast out as much of the KDS as possible and then use a dedicated narrow joint mortar. I've been playing around with VDW 815 for use with porcelain paving which is typically laid with 3-6mm joints, and I'm very impressed. However, you *must* follow the installation instruuctions to the letter and use plenty of water.
See a video here - admittedly, this one features riven stone, but the principles are the same. Still waiting for the right job to show it being used with porcelains. Any offers???
Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:42 am
by London Stone Paving
I was also going to recommend 815 as its designed for narrow joints. Using Kiln dried sand to point paving is as Tony says incompetent or lazy (not sure which is worse)
As for keeping it clean, you need to relax a bit. Sawn paving picks up lots of marks when freshly laid. The grain of the stone will still be substantial and this attracts dirt. In a couple of months a combination of foot traffic and exposure to the elements will weather the grain and dirt will not stick to it so easily.
Also when anything is new you are always hyper sensitive to any dirt. Its the same when you get a new carpet. For the first few weeks you hoover it every day.
Once you get the pointing sorted out try and enjoy your patio. It looks nice from the pictures
Steve
Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:40 pm
by pavingnightmare
Thank you all. Trying to summarise what you have said, lithofin seems to be the recommendation to seal the paving, although you don't seem very keen on sealing. I may try on a small hidden surface first to get an idea of the amount of work required and the results. As per the gaps, I have read the instructions for 815 for narrow gaps, but it says that the gaps should be > 3mm (from gftk website) and mine are definitely narrower. Your alternative suggestion was a sand stabiliser; could you please indicate a specific product? Finally, yes you are right: I should try to relax! Thanks again.
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 12:58 pm
by Tony McC
There's a shortlist of the better stabilisers on this page
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:56 am
by higgness
The last 2 don't seem to work,from the shortlist
Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 7:08 pm
by Tony McC
Probably not - it all needs updating, but what space I have in the Hi-Tech Research Facility at the bottom of the garden is chock-full with the stone sealant trials and my daughter's fellah's Big Dick Barbecue Monstrosity (which surely must be due for its annual outing any day now!)
I'll put it on the whoteboard over my desk - update stabilisers info - in red!