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Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:33 pm
by Forestboy1978
Hi guys, hope you're all cool.
Basically, I don't really like doing patios cos I've got a spinal fuse and they're kinda weather dependent etc etc. but an old friend wants me to do one and an old customer too. It's been a while since I did one. I sort of like doing them cos I like the attention to detail and both of the ones I'm doing allow me to use my imagination so kinda looking forward to them but...
I've just got to quote them right!!! I'm appalling at this. I ALWAYS under estimate the time needed. I'm not gonna be using any diggers or nowt, only a compactor so it's all gonna be labor and I will be working alone so I REALLY don't want to flip it up but also I like the people very much so I want to give them a fair price.
Any tips.
Any rough scales per m2. Both mortar bound. Not sure yet if sub base is needed. Possibly not due to clay ground if I go 60mm mortar I think it will be enough but I will check ground first.
Also, prob gonna use a sealent too for the first time. Lithofin so may need so advice on this if it's not straight forward.
Cheers in advance. You're always an ultra helpful bunch.
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:45 pm
by lutonlagerlout
if your going to do it right FB you will need 100MM minimum of subbase
especially on clay
standard indian stone around £100-120 per metre +vat
down this way anyway
LLL
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:10 pm
by Forestboy1978
Cheers.
Last time I did an indian sandstone patio I used 100mm and everyone told me it was good but I used too much bedding. Or was that because I had a sub base AND 100mm of mortar bedding?
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:33 pm
by Forestboy1978
Ah I see, yes, you are talking of sub base. Hambrooks, you may have heard of them, won the Chelsea flower show. Anyway I've seen their work and it was shit, but anyway, the guy doing their sandstone patios on clay didn't use any sub base at all and laid the slabs on actual concrete. Said it was fine. I wondered, especially after I saw their shoddy work and terrible falls, whether one can get away with that.
It appears not.
I'm guessing with clay, it swells in winter, hence the sub base necessity, more so than good soil?
Out of interest, at what point, in size, would you consider the need for a soakaway? This is a small patio and run off can go to grass so it's not needed but I'm curious cos I've turned down a lot of patios and there were times in the winter I didn't have work so I'm thinking of doing more of them. Maybe limited sizes though.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:10 pm
by Forestboy1978
Guys I've totally forgot what to do. I'm pretty sure last one I did a couple of years ago now was 4:1 sharp sand/ cement bed and 2 1/2 to 1 soft sand and cement with plasticiser mortar jointing. 90% sure that's what I did.
But dempsy is talking about a 3:1 sharp sand/ cement slurry SBR thing for mortar jointing and his work looks so good I'm thinking now there is a better way. What the hell is a 3:1 cement slurry SBR mix anyway? Or is he talking about bedding and not jointing?
I only ever use SBR on the back of the slabs themselves.
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:02 pm
by Forestboy1978
This was the last bit of paving I laid. It wasn't meant to be driven on but it was driven on immediately and has been for years. Even had a 5 ton truck pull up onto it and regularly a 3.5 tonner.
Anyhow, I just can't remember for the life of me how I did the mortar jointing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0fta4jsi718p6ry/20120628_164308.jpg?dl=0
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:08 pm
by seanandruby
...Have you thought about changing your career?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:30 am
by Forestboy1978
Not really, why?
Is that a genuine question, or are you being a prick for some reason..
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:30 am
by mickg
re read what you have posted and you will see you are asking the most basic of questions seeing you are suppose to be a trades person within our profession
I will give you a few clues
1 .... you have trouble working out the correct price to charge
2 .... you don't know the depth a patio sub base should be
3 .... you don't remember how to lay a patio
4 .... you don't know the depth of the bedding used to bed the patio flags
5 .... you don't know how to mortar joint the paving
What the hell is a 3:1 cement slurry SBR mix
the clue is in the words ...!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slurry
now this can be looked at 2 ways
1 .... you posted while drinking
2 .... you want us to do your homework for you
now do you get why sean posted and I quote "...Have you thought about changing your career?"
that's saying it the way I read it, not having a pop at you just being honest
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:52 pm
by Forestboy1978
I see!
Well, sorry, it's just been ages since I did one and I have a shit memory.
It's not my trade, and I never said it was. I've just done a few and keep getting asked to do more off the back of them. Until now, I've said no.
I don't profess to know all the ins and outs but I do plan properly, and I do my homework. I just thought I'd ask a few questions. Sorry if I offended anyone.
This is some stuff I've done in the past. About 3 -5 years ago now. It's all still in great shape and customers are happy. I'm not a pro but I think I have the right to do it.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjsugjk4bp5b7ju/10.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gt6n69z1e0fghw0/Charnwood%20Way%202.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:01 pm
by sy76uk
What is your trade?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:12 pm
by Forestboy1978
Maintenance stuff generally, specialising in fencing and interior exterior painting.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:25 pm
by seanandruby
Forestboy1978 wrote:Not really, why?
Is that a genuine question, or are you being a prick for some reason..
Now why would you offend someone like that ??? I'm surprised you haven't forgotten what a prick is :;):
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:28 pm
by Forestboy1978
I'm just having an ultra bad month and being a bit over sensitive I guess.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:53 pm
by sy76uk
Looking at the pictures you posted the projects have been completed by someone who wouldn't need to ask the questions that you have.
It also looks like they have been done by different contractors.
The reason I say this is because we all have our own way of doing things.
The project with the circles has been set out using a type 1 sub base with up to a 50mm bedding layer. It doesn't look like it's the first time he has set a circle out in that manner either.
The other work in progress looks to have no base but is laid on a 100mm mortar bed, usually a contactor has one method and sticks to it.
Regardless of all that, if you are going to do these patios you need to do the following.
Calculate the total cost of materials, plant, waste and labour.
The first 3 will be the easiest but if you don'tdon't know how many m2 you can lay in a day or work out how long any of the other jobs will take you you might come unstuck.
Another thing to remember is that none of this comes cheap. If you supply everything yourself and the client is unhappy with the finished job, chances are you won't be getting paid.
If the client pays for everything and you do a poor job he has lost a lot of his hard earned money.
Just a few things to consider.
