The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:24 am**

Hi,
In September last year I had 26m2 of Black Limestone flags laid in the whole of my very small back garden. The paver did a good job. I left it the recommended 6 weeks to allow for any efflorescence to appear, nothing came through. By this time the winter weather had set in and I didn't have enough consecutive dry days to be able to give it a clean and seal it.
Over the winter its had mud and dirt on it where the planters have had soil barrowed over to them. The real problem is that I have 2 dogs who have gone to the toilet on it. Even with picking it up straight away and throwing a bucket of water over it I've still been left with marking on the flags. I guess the acid in the urine is the biggest problem. It looks like water marks. The smell is really unpleasant too

Yesterday I used hot soapy water and a stiff brush all over it and that got off the mud on the surface. I know I wont be able to seal it for possibly a couple of months until the drier weather of the spring (fingers crossed!) but I would like to know what steps I will need to take to get it clean in order to seal it.
Ive looked over all of your very helpful info on Black Limestone and the different sealers etc. I'm probably going to go with an enhancer/intensifier.
With regards to the cleaning though I need something that will disinfect the area and give it a deep clean. I have access to a powerful jetwasher. I did look at the jeyes outdoor disinfectant fluid but I think that has acid in it so have steered clear of that one. I spoke to their technical guys who recommended the patio power but that doesn't have a disinfectant in it and they didn't really know about black limestone. If you can give me any advice Id be grateful.
Thanks,
Laura

Posted: **Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:19 pm**

Hi Laura, we usually recommend Lithofin 'Outdoor Cleaner' for use on the Black Limestone as this is not acid based. If the marks are from acid damage rather than dirt then you will struggle to bring the stone back to its previous colour because it's very sensitive to acid. Do you have any photos you could put up?

Posted: **Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:05 pm**

This can be brought back Bec, but not a job for a home owner IMO, due to the chemicals used.
Laura from your profile, you are not very far away from us if it is of interest I can have a look at the paving and give you a cost to clean & seal, but you would be looking at late June for any works to be undertaken.

Posted: **Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:12 pm**

Thanks for the replies.
I actually got the limestone from London Stone Bec

Thanks for the offer R&A. I really want to get it sorted before late June though, desperate to be able to use the garden and have it looking as nice as it should do! I'll give it a clean with the Lithofin and jet washer when the weather is ok and if I have no luck with getting it clean enough I'll give you a call.
Thank you.
Laura

Posted: **Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:35 pm**

LauraChimes wrote:Thanks for the replies.
I actually got the limestone from London Stone Bec
Thanks for the offer R&A. I really want to get it sorted before late June though, desperate to be able to use the garden and have it looking as nice as it should do! I'll give it a clean with the Lithofin and jet washer when the weather is ok and if I have no luck with getting it clean enough I'll give you a call.
Thank you.
Laura

Laura
Reason I said June is, we are fully booked up until then to do the whole job, but if you were interested in getting the surface cleaned and stain free ready for sealing, assuming you would seal yourself, I have a couple of days free this month, though it would be to early to seal, IE early March, as still not going to be warm or dry enough possibly. The Lithofin should be ok to use, (I don't use this one myself) for cleaning the surface but if you want a fail safe no acid cleaner, then have a look on the main site I think it is under stain removals? and there is a high alkaline mix that will clean the paving, but won't most probably remove the acidic stains from the dog's urine, it is under the berries stains I think. if I can help you, feel free to post or here or email me.

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:39 am**

Laura - was hoping that Roger might show up! He is the cleaning guru and knows everything about cleaning and sealing so it's well worth taking his advice on taking care of your limestone.

Posted: **Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:03 pm**

Thank you both for the tips. I've checked out your berry stains mix Roger and I will give that a go when the weather improves. If I don't have any success I'll give you a call.
Many thanks
Laura

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:34 am**

Hi Roger, I hope you don't mind me asking but I wonder if you could give your opinion on whether you think this product Ive found might be suitable for cleaning the black limestone of the urine odours? After cleaning it a few times with soapy buckets of water (I'm still waiting for a plumber to fit an outside tap so that we can use a pressure washer out there) the actual colour of the stone is quite uniform, just faded, which we expected, and although we've looked at your berry mix and the other cleaner suggested by London Stone I'm not sure that either will target the urine smell. So I've been researching and come across this product which says its non acidic and non corrosive but I am wary of putting anything on the limestone without checking with a professional first. Obviously we would do a test on one of the spare flags but in your opinion (or anyone else who's reading this!) is it worth trying or should I steer clear?

http://www.taylormclure.co.uk/bio-k20....2-p.asp

Thanks very much in advance.
Laura

Posted: **Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:53 pm**

LauraChimes wrote:Hi Roger, I hope you don't mind me asking but I wonder if you could give your opinion on whether you think this product Ive found might be suitable for cleaning the black limestone of the urine odours? After cleaning it a few times with soapy buckets of water (I'm still waiting for a plumber to fit an outside tap so that we can use a pressure washer out there) the actual colour of the stone is quite uniform, just faded, which we expected, and although we've looked at your berry mix and the other cleaner suggested by London Stone I'm not sure that either will target the urine smell. So I've been researching and come across this product which says its non acidic and non corrosive but I am wary of putting anything on the limestone without checking with a professional first. Obviously we would do a test on one of the spare flags but in your opinion (or anyone else who's reading this!) is it worth trying or should I steer clear?

http://www.taylormclure.co.uk/bio-k20....2-p.asp

Thanks very much in advance.
Laura

Hello Laura
I had a read of the product you posted, on the surface is sounds ok/good, but with it having these enzymes that gradually eat/remove the urine smell, one would heed to know how long this process continues for hours, days weeks ect ? as if you want to seal the paving will there be a problem with the sealer not curing? and will the sealer get past them? I would do a double check with the company that it is Limestone safe as well, as quite a few people don't understand that Limestone can & does mark/stain very easily.

The mix I have on the stain removals page is a chlorine based mix, so this will definitely get rid of the urine smell as well as clean the surface, how bad are if you have them are the acidic marks on the patio from the dog urine? can you post a photo of the patios present condition on here?

Posted: **Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:43 am**

Thanks so much Roger for taking the time to read it and reply. I didn't realise your mix would be sure to get rid of the smell as well as the staining. In that case I'll definitely go with your suggestion once I've got the outdoor tap fitted. Do you know where I can get the chlorine from?
I'll try to take a photo later today and upload it.
Thanks again.
Laura

Posted: **Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:55 am**

LauraChimes wrote:Thanks so much Roger for taking the time to read it and reply. I didn't realise your mix would be sure to get rid of the smell as well as the staining. In that case I'll definitely go with your suggestion once I've got the outdoor tap fitted. Do you know where I can get the chlorine from?
I'll try to take a photo later today and upload it.
Thanks again.
Laura

Any swimming pool cleaning outlet will have this, you need liquid not tablet/granules form, and it should be 14-15% in strength, the smallest sizes most places do is 10lts and you would have more then enough with this size container.

Posted: **Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:59 am**

I got mine from Amazon.

Posted: **Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:26 am**

I can't work out how to upload a photo on to here so unfortunately I can't show you pictures of the paving. Basically at the moment the whole area has water stains from where we've chucked buckets out there whenever they've gone to the toilet, and the resulting stains seem to be from the outer edge of the standing water, on some its a dark edge and on others its like a white halo. We don't have a problem with the smell since we started thoroughly washing it weekly with soapy water, buckets and a stiff broom.
The good news is we finally have an outside tap installed so the plan is to get the jet wash on it this weekend. I've ordered the sodium hypochlorite and its arriving today so we're going to follow your instructions Roger with your magic mix.
All being well we'll have a clean patio ready for sealing. I'd like to know what product is best to use afterwards. I'm a bit confused as to whether we should use the Dry Treat Intensifier or Dry Treat Stain Proof or both? When I spoke to London Stone about the problems we've been having they emailed me the technical sheets on both products.

I'm assuming that the sodium hypochlorite will have even more of a bleaching effect on the limestone than that that has already naturally occurred so we're going to need something to restore the colour. I do quite like the softer grey look, I don't necessary need it to be dark black (like it looks when wet) but if that means its sealed better then I would go for that look (as long as its not shiny!) The main thing is it must be sealed as best as possible and as uniform in colour as possible.
I don't have to use the 2 products suggested by London Stone, I'm happy to try something else if it comes on recommendation.
You're advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Laura

Posted: **Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:50 pm**

why are the dogs crapping on the patio?
shouldnt they do this when they go for a walk?
london stone and rogers advice is 100%
go for it
LLL

Posted: **Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:20 pm**

They go for a walk before work in the morning and again when we get home but they often want to go out late at night for a pee...and if I'm in my pjs I can't take them to the park!

The Brew Cabin

Cleaning black limestone - Unsealed and stained!