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Posted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:26 pm
by luzippu
Hi,
I would like some feedback and tips from the experts before I start my first patio project below.
I have been reading the site for a few weeks now, have identified the right supplier and i think i'm ready to go. 
THANKS!
Project:
35sqm patio area / no cars or heavy traffic
22mm calibrated sandstone (Raj Green or Modak Brown ...not sure yet)
sub-grade is well compacted mostly clay(ish) ground
1. excavate to the required depth
2. add a compacted sub-base of 75mm Type1 (approx. 5 tons needed)
3. for the bedding i'm going for a 10:1 mix ratio of sharp sand and cement (approx. 3 tons of sand and 11 bags cement).
I will aim for a moist mix (S2) slump.
4. for pointing i was planning to use the gun injected solution. What is the recommended mix ratio? and should i do this the next day or as i go along with the flags?
5. I will take into account a slight fall for drainage.
Remember, although handy with generic DIY, this is my first patio!
Cheers
Paul
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:21 pm
by Tony McC
75mm really is the absolute minimum for a sub-base.
Can't comment on the gun nonsense as the proprietary brands each have their own recommendation and the site-mixed-own-recipe stuff is...welll...not very good. However, pointing is normally left until all the paving is laid then it can be done in one long back-breaking, wrist-aching stint.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 12:30 pm
by luzippu
Tony McC wrote:However, pointing is normally left until all the paving is laid
Hi Tony, i'm sure i've read somewhere on the site that pointing is recommended carried out before the bedding sets so that the mortar used for pointing "gels" with the mortar below... or have i misread this!?!
cheers
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 1:48 pm
by Tony McC
Yes, ideal if you are a competent contractor who can be certain of covering sufficient ground and getting the jopint balancing done with time to spare, but most DIYers are better off focussing on one task at a time.
Posted: Wed May 14, 2014 5:48 pm
by lutonlagerlout
if you are going for 10:1 it is done by weight
so 3000kgs of sand should equal 300 kgs of cement which is 12 bags
personally I would be using around 15-18 bags for that amount of sand
LLL
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 12:36 am
by luzippu
Thank you. Also any tips on how to finish the patio edge on to same level lawn?
So once the patio is finished it will be at the same level as an area of grass.(yet to be laid)
Given that the sandstone flags won't have a straight edge, do you recommend having an edge of paving blocks running in between?
I have seen some nice matching raj green 100x100mm blocks... But i guess i will have the same problem with the uneven edge side facing the grass...
What do the expert do? I take concrete blocks are not a good match!?!
Cheers
Paul
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 6:55 am
by dig dug dan
If you use string lines set up to the correct falls, with one end touching the grass, and lay to that, you should be spot on. You could lay aline of blocks, nut if you are paving up to it, you must be spot on with your measurement, or you will find youself cutting lots of slabs.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 8:12 am
by luzippu
Hi Dan, the drop runs from one end of the garden opposite the house and drops down slightly towards the house where i then have Aco drainage channels all along.i have grass on one side and fences to the opposite side (with concrete gravelboards/posts).
The patio will cover the whole area touching the house to one end, grass to one side and fences at the back and other side.
My plan was to start from the corner near the house flush to the grass and Aco channels and work my way up towards the end of the garden (fences) and other side (fences). So all my slab cutting will be against a gravelboard and not the grass.
The dilemma is, shall i start straight with the flags pattern flush to the grass or add a line of blocks in between grass and patio?
A picture would probably help... I'll try upload one later.
Cheers
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 10:56 am
by luzippu
and here is a sketch i've been working on.
the colour of the flags are just to distinguish sizes... hopefully it won't look like that
there is a slight slope from the back fence to the ACO drains and from the house outwards.
question is... shall i bother with the paving block edging?
thanks
paul
btw, i had to create a google site to publish a photo... surely there is an easier way!!!
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 10:02 am
by Tony McC
You don't need an edge course full stop. The flags will form their own edge and it's not uncommon for flags to be laid adjacent to lawn or planter beds.
The sett edge looks neat and adds class, but it's not actually doing owt that the flags on their own wouldn't do.
Don't use concrete blocks or edgings, though. Concrete products are always embarassed when used in conjunction with natural stone. Their artificiality (is that a word?) is exaggerated by the naturalness of the stone.
Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:17 am
by seanandruby
Tony McC wrote:You don't need an edge course full stop. The flags will form their own edge and it's not uncommon for flags to be laid adjacent to lawn or planter beds.
The sett edge looks neat and adds class, but it's not actually doing owt that the flags on their own wouldn't do.
Don't use concrete blocks or edgings, though. Concrete products are always embarassed when used in conjunction with natural stone. Their artificiality (is that a word?) is exaggerated by the naturalness of the stone.
Artificiality
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Artificiality (also called factitiousness) is the state of being the product of intentional human manufacture, rather than occurring naturally. Artificiality often carries with it the implication of being false, counterfeit, or deceptive. The philosopher Aristotle wrote in his Rhetoric:
Naturalness is persuasive, artificiality is the contrary; for our hearers are prejudiced and think we have some design against them, as if we were mixing their wines for them. It is like the difference between the quality of Theodorus' voice and the voices of all other actors: his really seems to be that of the character who is speaking, theirs do not.[1]
However, artificiality does not necessarily have a negative connotation, as it may also reflect the ability of humans to replicate forms or functions arising in nature, as with an artificial heart or artificial intelligence. Political scientist and artificial intelligence expert Herbert A. Simon observes that "some artificial things are imitations of things in nature, and the imitation may use either the same basic materials as those in the natural object or quite different materials.[2] Simon distinguishes between the artificial and the synthetic, the former being an imitation of something found in nature (for example, an artificial sweetener which generates sweetness using a formula not found in nature), and the latter being a replication of something found in nature (for example, a sugar created in a laboratory that is chemically indistinguishable from a naturally occurring sugar).[2]
Posted: Sat May 17, 2014 8:20 am
by seanandruby
.......Like the word factitiousness best ???
Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:09 pm
by luzippu
laying will start this weekend... and panic sets in
still not 100% sure on bedding:
i 've gone for single size flags at the end (900x600 sandstone in Autumn Brown)
34 sqm
reading through the site i'm inclined to go for 6:1 mix:
based on the "6:1 Bedding Calc" i need 2.6T of sharp and 21 bags of cement
if i mix 6 big shovels of sand and 1 of cement... how much water do you recommend for a moist mix? (roughly in pints or litres...)
do i also need to add SBR to the mix?
thanks!
paul