The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:32 pm**

Background , posted a Q some months back, and advice is to use a resin pointing ... have a large Indian Sandstone patio laid by a contractor (who frequented here)

After only 3 years a huge quantity of pointing has come away .. crumbling up.
Contractor ceased trading and won't put any of this right.

This was pointed with tamped in 3:1 (yes that was used for sure, I bought it)
If I am going to replace the pointing ...

Couple of questions ..

1. Which Polymeric resin is most suited to sandstone patio, foot traffic only ..seen video on Jointex Easy ... and gftk 840+

2. The patio has edging of clay paviors and also a line of them continuing path line around house the patio about 1m off wall (2 x pictures below hopefully explain better)
Will Resin (brush in - hose off type) be OK ... with those centre paviors and not stain them ... will semi dry point edge ones.

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums....ae0.jpg

3. do I have to remove all the old pointing as per the video, or can I leave sound pointing in place, can pressure wash out any loose stuff. Would seem a lot of work to cut out sound pointing.
Or does use of resin 'brush in' require all pointing to be removed.
In which case could I just top up where needed with a resin in a gun ?
2 pictures below show poor portions ... final picture shows what it is like where it is OK.

Poor -

Poor-

Sound-

Posted: **Mon Apr 21, 2014 3:44 pm**

sheesh
it needs to be raked out with a mortar blade
(messy dusty job lot of mess)
hoover out the joints
and then repointed
I have never seen pointing fail like that
the gear must have been too dry,it hasnt bonded

best resins are romex D1 or gftk vdw 850

both pricey but do the job

or you could use easipoint or larssen gun point

LLL

Posted: **Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:13 am**

I wouldn't use a polymeric - go for a proper resin slurry, if resin is what you want. those mentioned above by LLL are very good.

It's a poor job and not worthy of anyone claiming to be a Brew Cabin Irregular

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:50 pm**

It started coming out after only 12 months ...

To be honest they did a really good job on drive paviors, and laying the patio .... but rubbish on pointing.

I'm going to remove what is left to allow a resin slurry to be used, you mention a "mortar blade" .... is this type you put in an angle grinder ? I see these at huge range of price ... does price=better quality ?
Erbauer blade at Â£23 Silverline at Â£9 welcome advice from those that use them.

I started looking at mortar supplier had some comments from NCC that I would be better to use vdw800 (rather than vdw840+)

What would be best ... as this has been such an expensive mistake ... need to put it right with optimum material .... but don't want to buy wrong product .... at Â£97 a tub this is seriously expensive stuff.

This is a patio only .... no vehicles, other than wheelbarrows occasionally.

VDW 800, 850 or even Romex D1

(happy to take PM on this if preferred)

Pressure washed yesterday and huge chunks of it coming away ...

Almost zero left in the paths ..

Finally if anyone in S. Wales capable of doing decent job, let me know .... would like to get this done ASAP, and because of major knee surgery spending time on my knee raking this out will be difficult.

Posted: **Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:12 pm**

I got myself a ERBAUER diamond disc for a 230mm angle grinder for my garden works and have been very happy with it,

You would maybe ok with small grinder, my 230mm or 9 incher (I wish) can give fair bit kickback
Ok it hasn't been used non-stop but I've had several weekends of use and still going strong.

Prob a good idea to get dust mask, I've got asthma n thought my lungs were going to pack in after cutting down retaining wall (apparently I sounded like Darth Vader when I was breathing)
Safety glasses wouldn't do any harm either

If you want good reviews before you buy anything I usually check screw fix and amazon coz the things they sell have customer reviews.

Looks like a fair sized patio so buying the dearer blade/disc is prob least of your worries and if you've just had knee surgery you might end up getting them replaced, I pointed approx 7m of individual setts I'm my garden few weeks ago and takes longer than you think.

Good luck, cheers

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:02 pm**

I don't think grinding that lot out would be a good idea. Hammer, chisel and patients is required for that job. a few slips with the grinder and you'll be replacing more than the morter.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:43 pm**

OK .. guys another variable in the mix (no pun intended) ... had a suggestion to use Marshall 365.

Anybody out there any actual experience with this .... from what I can see...
Pros ...
40% cheaper than VDW or Romex
Unused can be kept

Cons ...
Not self compacting

As you know from above - I have a lot of work to do to repair a 'Professionals' job .... so want to get choice of material right.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:48 pm**

sy76uk wrote:I don't think grinding that lot out would be a good idea. Hammer, chisel and patients is required for that job. a few slips with the grinder and you'll be replacing more than the morter.

I have ground out bigger patios than that, if you use a hammer and plugging chisel you run a great risk of chipping and damaging flags
if the pointing is as shot as it looks then it will grind out real easy
we use a drill with a 8mm masonry bit for areas near walls
then a henry hoover to suck all the crud up

IMHO weatherpoint is achievable by the OP
I still feel that sand and cement properly done is the best job but you need a dry day and a steady hand
LLL

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:06 pm**

The pic I posted above of what happened to path with pressure washing, with wife 'avoiding' the joints ... so I'm sure it will all come out easily ... only stuff that seem solid is between the paviors.

Only reason I am against sand & cement is that this is what the 'Professional' company used, and had bone dry weather all though the job (maybe too dry).

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:11 pm**

rick for it to fail like that they were using too dry a mix

if you use a pointing gun the mix has to be sopping wet and then you let it dry in the joint for 2-3 hours before striking

it wouldnt surprise me if they have part filled the joints with a completely dry mix and this has caused the problems

failed pointing is a common request but its never a cheap job

LLL

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:11 pm**

After taking a look at all the on-line videos think I need a "slurry-in" and "brush-off" product.

'Brush off' 800
seems to be easy to control the mess .. compared to
'Hose off 840+

Does the VDX800 get removed by brush off or hose off?

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:22 pm**

lutonlagerlout wrote:rick for it to fail like that they were using too dry a mix

it wouldnt surprise me if they have part filled the joints with a completely dry mix and this has caused the problems

I watched .. them it was all the same (no pre-fill) they used a 3:1 mix ... but drier than bricklaying compo, somewhere between compo & semidry in consistency, and were trowellling it it and 'tamping' it to finish with a strip of wood.

It was very hot & dry at the time ... what I didn't like is that they would make a barrow full and still be using it couple of Hrs later, knocking it back up ..

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:52 pm**

Thing is, its riven paving with raggedy edges. I'd be able to grind it out but I've been at it for a few weeks now so I'm getting the hang of it. IMHO if ( and judging by the pictures it is) the morter is fragile enough a hammer and bolster will take it out without damaging the flags as long as rick is careful.

From your last post Rick, it sounds like the heat in the paving dried the morter out too quick and a mix should be used within an hour tops really.

Posted: **Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:32 pm**

Professionals eh..?

Posted: **Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:04 am**

well in fairness we are all human

and to err,is human

but if you balls something up its only right that you put it right

every bloke on this forum has made a bollix of something at some point

not doing it twice is the key point

LLL

The Brew Cabin

What resin pointing should i use - Repointing job