The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:34 am**

I had an interesting discussion with some of the Brettsters on Friday evening and again on Saturday morning about the changes in flag paving.

They've identified that a ridiculous majority of flag paving laid for residential projects (patios and driveways) is natural stone, an area in which they have, up until now, not been particularly strong. There is still a reasonable level of demand for pressed concrete paving, particularly for utilitarian projects or those on a tight budget, but the most worrying product group is the wet-cast.

Almost no-one is bothering to install wet-cast any longer. Customers aren't choosing it; contractors aren't suggesting it; and increeasingly, manufacturers are reducing their commitment to make the damned stuff.

So, how many of you would consider using wet-cast paving in the coming season? Is there any genuine deamnd for it from your customers or from the DIYers who frequent the Brew Cabin? Is there anything the manufacturers could do to make wet cast more appealling to you? Or is it now too late, is it irretrievably condemned to languish as cheap'n'shoddy novelty nonsense sold only by garden centres and (worryingly) supermarkets online?

Does wet-cast have a future? What will you be laying this season?

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:07 am**

just quoted for 2 jobs one using herritage and the other saxon, first time in must be 6 years these two names have even been mentioned by customers let alone me even thinking of saying the words to a customer but that said if we get the work I will look forward to laying them as it will be something different for the photo album other than fairstone

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:45 am**

problem is that high end wet cast (think stonemarket millstone)
is the guts of Â£35 a metre
you can get honed sandstone for a few quid more
the only concrete slabs I have laid in the last 5 years have been bar-faced council greys,and i havent done any of them for a few months
LLL

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:51 am**

thats the problem Tony, I priced up a herritage 3 ring circle and it cost Â£120 more than a Fairstone riven 3 ring circle what has travelled 6,800 miles more than it does from Halifax in Yorkshire

I thought the girl on the phone was taking the piss quoting me so much

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:12 am**

Most bm'sround here are knocking out a crate of injun stone far cheaper than wet cast flags, so they tend to go for that.
having said that, I have laid a lot of bradstone textured buff ( exact copy of marshals saxons, without the mark up) and they seem to be popular amongst people wanting a non slip pathway without pointing.
I think the days of cheap wet cast flags are over, even wickes now are too expensive

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:59 am**

Can't remember last time quoted for using wet cast - other than the new Marshall's Wildwood ( is this classed as wetcast ? )
I do not push or promote wet cast flags as a rule, especially when Indian sandstone is generally cheaper and is a natural product
We do a lot of paths and patios in matching block paving to the drive. It's mainly a cost issue - the client wants their drive done plus the patio. The cost for using Tegula blocks on the patio is a lot cheaper than using any kind of flag. And most clients decisions are based on cost !
Plus the continuation of matching paving on the drive, side path and patio does look ok.
Have had major problems in the past with Heritage flags - will not now touch with a barge pole

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:22 pm**

another point to note
in the last year we have laid approx 500m2 of sandstone
1 stone broke
with wetcast the failure rate is much higher
I DO love stonemarket millstone but jobs i have done previously with them the colour goes after a few years and the aggregate shows through
LLL

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:58 pm**

thats actually a very good point with the breakages, if you laid 500m2 of wet cast flags you most certainly would break more than one and more than one would have a corner missing whilst still in the pack

Posted: **Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:00 pm**

I wont push wet cast, mainly due to the high breakage rate. If a customer asks for them, i tend to try and sway them to natural stone. if not just get an extra 10% and try not to break too many. I dont think I have laid a wet cast slab for 3 years now.

Posted: **Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:19 am**

Nigel Walker wrote:Marshall's Wildwood ( is this classed as wetcast ? )

Wildwood is a pressed flag treated to expose the coarse aggregate (not sure if Marshalkls want me to reveal the exact treatment process so I'll keep me big gob shut for now)

What colour you using, Nigel?

I'll be really interested in how you bget on with it, as I think it's the most exciting new concrete product in 3 years. It may well be an acquired tast, but what it represents really does entice me - I can see this technology being adapted to a much wider range of products, more 'realistic' colours, and once they get the tech sorted, larger sizes.

Posted: **Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:53 pm**

From a retailing perspective, it's nearly always natural stone now, unless it's the cheapest Dovedale concrete. I would say that there is starting to be an interesting shift at the top end to the manmade 'terrazzo' styles and other smooth surfaced premium concrete such as the Haus range. The attraction is often the uniformity of colour. We're still asked for Heritage, but much less often now and most of the time, by people who are extending an existing area. Most people looking for this kind of finish would also look at a tumbled sandstone. Personally, I'm very keen on the new contemporary premium concrete styles and would like to see how they weather over time.

Posted: **Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:29 pm**

Tony

I am using the Pine colour. This is the colour that I would have chosen myself. The Sycamore sample looked lovely, but I imagine on a large area it would be too green.
The Oak colour I was not too keen on.

I am installing the patio at the end of March - beginning April. There's a few steps, a couple of circular patterns and the Wildwood laid in random coursed pattern using all 3 sizes.
Its a smallish patio at just under 35m2, but there is the lawn to re turf too.
Will post piccies and updates when we are doing it.

Just had a 60m2 patio quote accepted today. I had quoted for using Marshalls Fairstone Antique and/or Riven. Price was too high for their budget by a couple of grand !!!, so now using Marshalls Tegula but just using the Jumper blocks in coursed bonded pattern. Should be good

It would really help when I am quoting if I knew the clients budget

Posted: **Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:08 pm**

We are also doing a couple of patios using Marshalls wildwood this year , also in pine I think its a great looking product, flat, nice texture and less porous than natural stone so maintenance should be easier.
Do believe wet cast concrete paving has its place in the market and its made in the uk so its all good

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:48 am**

Give that the old wet cast flags (sorry I donâ€™t know the make) on my patio lost some of its surface when it was power washed with a very low powered jet waster, I donâ€™t think I will trust it for anything.

At least with real stone, if the surface gets damaged there is the same stone underneath.

Posted: **Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:35 pm**

I was chatting to a landscape architect yesterday and was discussing how over here in northern ireland its basically tobermore or acheson glover or standard riven sandstone limestone or granite from a few different suppliers.

There is so little of any higher end stuff and very little variation with CED hardscape etc almost only used for commercial projects.

Aside from indian sandstone the only more expensive thing i ever get asked to lay is the acheson glover rimini flags which are a terrazo type as mentioned by paving superstore.

My town centre pavements are just about to be laid in porphory which will be a bit different at least.

The Brew Cabin

What sort of flags/slabs?