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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:45 pm
by Jimlad
Hello, I've posted on here loads last year you guys helped immensly with building a drive.
I'm a gardener slowly (v slowly) learning the trade; my customer wants slabs and I've just spoken with a landscaper who says he uses 'creamy mortar' 12 to 2 mix under his slabs (the five point method.
He says its far easier and quicker than the sand/cement 6 to 1 dry method (screeded to a level and then slabs on top) which I've done before.
I've got a large 50 sqm project thats been given the go ahead by my customer - which method do you fine chaps think is the best to go for.
(I'm very tempted to hire a mixer and go for the mortar method rather than the sand/cement dry mix method which I've used before)
I'm going to be using basic 600mmx600mm slabs not sure yet if the customer wants indian sandstone (marshalls concrete slabs) or as I say just the basic grey standard ones)
thanks in advance gentlemen.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:45 pm
by lutonlagerlout
jim are you on a wind up mate?
what is the difference bewtween 12/2 and 6/1?
where on this site does it advocate spot bedding?
the landscaper you spoke to is a cowboy,100%
only a full bed of mortar 6 grit sand to 1 cement is acceptable for any patio,the slump is up to yourself
get a cup of tea or a beer and read some of this
all the best
LLL
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:27 pm
by r896neo
Not to mention this 'dry-mix' method which doesn't require a mixer.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:29 pm
by Jimlad
lutonlagerlout wrote:jim are you on a wind up mate?
No? - no wind up - just a question, admittidly a naive one from a far less experienced person looking to do the right thing for someone.
what is the difference bewtween 12/2 and 6/1?
I didn't say there was a difference, it's the same thing,
where on this site does it advocate spot bedding?
Not advocating it - just asking a question - (that another landscaper said he uses) not me - which is why it thought it odd and thought I'd ask your opinions on on the question forum.
the landscaper you spoke to is a cowboy,100%
Yes - you're probably right which is why I wanted to ask.
only a full bed of mortar 6 grit sand to 1 cement is acceptable for any patio,the slump is up to yourself
- righto - thanks.
get a cup of tea or a beer and read some of this
I've had a cup of beer, and a pint of tea and a digestive and I feel a little better now - thanks.
all the best
LLL
Thankyou for your reply - sorry it got on yer goat, cheers.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:50 pm
by London Stone Paving
Jim
Full bed of mortar is the only way to go. Picture below illustrates perfectly how it should be. Get the mortar almost like brick laying mix. Create the peaks and troughs in your bed and as long as your string lines are set up properly its hard to go wrong. I was taught to lay on spot beds when i started out landscaping. Not only is it a complete fail but its also more time consuming and harder to get the levels right.
If you are going for Indian Sandstone, then make sure the stone is calibrated to an even thickness, It wont be too hard, most suppliers are supplying calibrated stone these days
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:02 pm
by Jimlad
Sir you are a gentleman - and thanks for the picture.
I know some of the questions that the less experienced among us (me) - must be annoying and utterly repetitive to some people here which I understand.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 pm
by Jimlad
London Stone Paving wrote:Jim
Full bed of mortar is the only way to go. Picture below illustrates perfectly how it should be. Get the mortar almost like brick laying mix. Create the peaks and troughs in your bed and as long as your string lines are set up properly its hard to go wrong. I was taught to lay on spot beds when i started out landscaping. Not only is it a complete fail but its also more time consuming and harder to get the levels right.
If you are going for Indian Sandstone, then make sure the stone is calibrated to an even thickness, It wont be too hard, most suppliers are supplying calibrated stone these days
Thanks again london, as for the sub base layer, is it best to 'always' put in a minimum of 100mm of mot type 1 (compacted to this lavel as I'm building up it to 100mm) or is 50mm enough for the sub-base?
Thankyou.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:32 pm
by lutonlagerlout
those flags were unregulated steve 
jim you didnt get my goat but there is a whole wealth of information on the main site before you come near the forum
I would always use 100mm of subbase unless the ground was chalk or such
there are certain unmentionables on the brew cabin jim
spot bedding being one of them :;):
LLL
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:46 am
by London Stone Paving
lutonlagerlout wrote:those flags were unregulated steve
I thought that Global were 22mm. I'm surprised at that Tony. What were they? 25-40mm?
To do it properly its got to be 100mm sub base Jim.
Steve
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:46 am
by Jimlad
lutonlagerlout wrote:those flags were unregulated steve
jim you didnt get my goat but there is a whole wealth of information on the main site before you come near the forum
I would always use 100mm of subbase unless the ground was chalk or such
there are certain unmentionables on the brew cabin jim
spot bedding being one of them :;):
LLL
Cheers LLL,
I know the spot bedding is a complete no go,
I did feel like a complete 'C U Next tuesday' asking the question in the first place, but when I initially heard it from this fella I was speaking with, I was surprised to hear it and wanted to clear things up - for my own sanity if nothing else.
I've got Tony's book last yr,and I have scoured the website countless times over the past year or so, problem is for me - when you're a billy no mates gardener like me - trying to reach out into the world of hard landscaping, the work (especially at first) is few and far between, meaning that I don't get the chance to learn by repitition, also, having the equivilant memory of a goldfish doesn't help, however - despite my crap question I do like to ask before making an elementry mistake.
Thanks for your replies LLL, you were a great help with building my first drive last year and I respect your considerable expertise and experience (trying not to brown nose too much) :O
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:20 pm
by lutonlagerlout
steve
originally the client wanted modak rose
then the weekend i was going to order they changed their mind to autumn blend
I did point them your way but at the time the pictures were offline for whatever reason
anyway the client went to butterfields and picked autumn blend which bizarrely is the only uncalibrated range that global do
apart from my bete noir of the small units i found most of the flags to be around 30-35mm and fairly flat
out of 5 crates we only had 7 flags unlayable
jim
you are on the right track mate
always best to ask first, but your professionalism may cost you the job when pricing against the cowboys
cheers LLL
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:42 pm
by Jimlad
lutonlagerlout wrote:jim
you are on the right track mate
always best to ask first, but your professionalism may cost you the job when pricing against the cowboys
cheers LLL
LLL, think I am on right track,I'm getting alot of interest from my gardening customers wanting slabs etc...
... my customers won't be needing Dom Littlewood chasing me round in his mitsubishi calling me a thief and a liar.
Not with you lots guidance anyway.
65 notes per sqm with all tools,hire,skip,labour and material is fair I think?? obviously the customer paying for slabs on top of that. and I'm still coming away with nice little profit when done.
Not sure what the cowboys are charging but I have seen some examples of thier work around my area and its bad.
Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:10 am
by lutonlagerlout
65 + flags is fair money for a proper job
I charge a bit more than that but have a different business model
LLL