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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:59 pm
by coolstan
I am having a nightmare with the "landscape gardener" who is doing my patio. He started it a few months ago. He underquoted so half way through went on other jobs and comes back occasionally to do 30 mins work. He keeps saying he'll be in one day but never does, then blames the rain.
All he has left if pointing, but its been waiting for about 3 weeks now.
The point is he says it needs to be dry and its been raining. Some days its beautiful sunshine but he;s on another job, then when he says he'll come in it "looks as though" it might rain, it has sometimes but not always. I know we havent had a great summer, but we have had dry days...
So he's waiting for it to not rain. It hasnt rained today or yesterday but he says it has...
Well if it has its been tiny. So my question is in an overcast day that MAY rain (or perhaps rained a bit) is pointing still OK? Can't the pointing not be covered over with a tarp or something to keep it dry.
At this rate, with british weather and his attitude it will never get pointed, whereas I see patios everywhere, I dont believe every patio in the UK has been pointed in zero rain.
Thanks a lot
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:12 pm
by London Stone Paving
Obviously you cant point in the rain but but it sounds like he is completely milking the point.
Have you paid him yet?
Whats the are that needs pointing?
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:10 pm
by r896neo
Whilst it does sound like he is taking the piss look at it from the contractors point of view.
If the weather forecast is not totally dry and i spend a day pointing then there is a large heavy shower late on i might need to remove the pointing and re-do so not only have i not got paid that day but i need to spend extra time cleaning up and another day re-doing it?
Covering with a tarp can sometime work but very much depends on the area.
You need to tell him that the next dry forecasted day you expect him to be there and finish it or this will drag on for another few weeks.
I don;t think its reasonable though to expect him to come on a maybe maybe not type forecast.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:37 pm
by Carberry
You know he has underquoted so just offer him some more money to come and finish it?
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:39 pm
by lutonlagerlout
hmm i live in luton and we havent had so much as a spit of rain for 3 weeks
tbh he just needs to get on with it before the clocks go back or he will be moaning its too dark
LLL
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:59 pm
by Pablo
If he's underquoted (a near impossible thing to do on a patio) then the cheapest get out is to do the thing as promptly as you can messing around and going to a job on and off is the least profitable way of doing a job I never understand why some folk do it. Get in stick at it till it's done then move on to the next one multiple jobs and one squad is money down the drain.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:31 pm
by lutonlagerlout
the only way you can underquote is by not putting the graft in
pricing of slabs/flags,type 1 etc is easy
I know loads of lads pablo,who start a job get a draw then spend it in the pub/bookie
they then start saying they underquoted
LLL
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 8:55 am
by Tony McC
There are pointing products other than sand+cement mortar that actually NEED it to be damp/wet before they can be used.
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:56 pm
by wcroz99
Well seeing as he was stupid enough to under quote and sounds like he doesn't give 2 sh!ts about the job, you are probably best off just buying a tub of marshalls weatherpoint (can be done in the rain) and doing it yourself. Then tell him not to bother coming back. Job done.
I cant believe how some people can run a business like that though!
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:28 am
by London Stone Paving
^^^
That's the best suggestion.
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:35 pm
by coolstan
Sorry for late reply, looks like I am not subscribed to this even though I started it! So I had no notifications. Anyway....
Well he has done the pointing now, I kept complaining and he came in on a Saturday because it was the only day forecast sunny (week last Saturday, so about 12 days ago). It was a beautiful day.
So pointing looked OK. But then it rained the next day and the surface has washed away in a lot of places. It seems like the main pointing is concrete, its gray and solid, but then for the colour he put a thin sandy layer of pointing on top. Like only half a centimetre. This is what's washing away.
I am no expert but this sandy mixture would never stand a chance, even if it went hard it was so thin that walking over and the kids bikes would crack it and it would come off in bits.
He said thats what he was told (he said like he only just read some instructions or something). He keeps saying how good is patio jobs are, but I get the impression he hasnt done much.
So is this normal, to put a thin sandy coloured mixture over the top of the main pointing which looks like concrete?
When I get time I am going to brush away all this sandy stuff (which is the colour I want) and leave the grey concrete there.
You know he has underquoted so just offer him some more money to come and finish it?
When he quoted I didnt know, and he quoted all the money I had saved up (~£2200). If he said it would be say £4000 (like some other guy I had in to look at the job later), I would not have gone ahead. So I really did not have the money to pay more. BUT I dont want this guy back, so I am saving again, and will get someone else in to give me an opinion on what he did right/wrong and to quote on tidying it up. I am self employed and I underquote sometimes, but you just have to do it to finish the job and put the overtime in if you need paid jobs during the day. He wont do the overtime so I hardly see him now even though there are a few other things left.
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:01 pm
by Carberry
coolstan wrote:You know he has underquoted so just offer him some more money to come and finish it?
When he quoted I didnt know, and he quoted all the money I had saved up (~£2200). If he said it would be say £4000 (like some other guy I had in to look at the job later), I would not have gone ahead. So I really did not have the money to pay more. BUT I dont want this guy back, so I am saving again, and will get someone else in to give me an opinion on what he did right/wrong and to quote on tidying it up. I am self employed and I underquote sometimes, but you just have to do it to finish the job and put the overtime in if you need paid jobs during the day. He wont do the overtime so I hardly see him now even though there are a few other things left.
Figured that would be the case. Was just tossing the idea out there 
The way he has done it would have been ok if the mortar in between the joints hadn't dried yet but because he has left so long to point it up it won't work, it should have been raked out and filled to a proper depth (twice the width of the joint minimum).
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:47 am
by Tony McC
Why would you point in two layers? It's just doubling the amount of back-breaking, hunched-over-double work!
And even if he's the sort of moron that enjoys hand pointing, why use a weaker sandy mix for the top of the joint? Madness!
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:29 am
by coolstan
I might try to see if I can take a good image later, I am no DIY expert but just does not look right. I think the main concrete pointing was not by hand, he mentioned some sort of gun, but the top layer must have been I think.
I wondered if it was a way to save money, i.e. if the top layer costs more then dont put so much down, put concrete underneath. I dont know though.
Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:44 pm
by coolstan
Take a look at these two images! Awful or what. Now would this be normal pointing and I am unlucky with the rain (which was the day after), or is this just terrible pointing?
http://imgur.com/a/UKIkT#0 (click on the two thumbnails top right to view them both)