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Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 11:14 am
by EViS
Finally finished laying 80m2 of Marshalls Woodstone paving on a mortar bed (3:1.5:1 sharp:building:cement) and its time to point. Due to the irregularity in this paving, the gaps vary between 2mm and 8mm. Seeing as this paving is extensively textured, brushing a dry-mix (or slurry for that matter) isn't an option. So, I see the options are:
1. Painstakingly trowel using a 4:1 building sand mix (with some plasticiser to help things along a tad). High risk of staining as the edges of every slab are different and in some cases stagger downwards.
2. Use a point gun with above mix. I haven't ever used a gun as they seem to get very mixed reviews, but might be just the ticket here.
3. Trowel using a dry polymeric sand. Probably the fastest method and zero risk of staining, but are these sands as good as using a standard mortar in terms of durability?
How would you guys go about pointing this type of paving?
EDIT: I took some pictures of the actual paving and the joints. Might be of more use for you guys to judge and advice upon as opposed to a manufacturers catalogue picture. Each picture has a £1 and 10p coin in a joint to provide some scale of the joint width ("where's wally" anyone?).
Narrowest joints (approx 20% of total area):
Widest joints (approx 20% of total area):
Majority of joints (approx 60%):
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 1:39 pm
by local patios and driveway
Its meant to look like timber,i wouldnt have left gaps to point, i would have butt jointed it. Failing that i would now round point it with 1 sharp 3 render 1 cement. Relativly dry. It wont stain unless you dont take care, or start thowing it all over the place
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 2:08 pm
by EViS
local patios and driveways wrote:Its meant to look like timber,i wouldnt have left gaps to point, i would have butt jointed it. Failing that i would now round point it with 1 sharp 3 render 1 cement. Relativly dry. It wont stain unless you dont take care, or start thowing it all over the place
Butt jointing was my initial thought too, however Marshalls were adamant that 10mm gaps should be created and pointed. So I went halfway and created 2 to 8 mm gaps. In all fairness, some of the slabs vary in width from one end to the other by up to 30mm!
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 5:13 pm
by lutonlagerlout
2mm isnt a joint its a fag paper
i cant see anything lasting in there
LLL
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 6:36 pm
by DNgroundworks
bit of a bodge but maybe not, hows about Kiln dried sand?
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 7:00 pm
by haggistini
Only way out is to run a saw up the very tight joints and use an epoxy resin jointing compound lick romex D1 or GTFK 850 big bucks but easy to do, quick and it will get down the joints. KDS will last about a week and what's the point of mixing render and sharpe sand ? = sharpe sand?
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:05 pm
by ken
I reckon the flags shown in the pic you have posted have been jointed using marshalls geofix. Look at the joints in the area at the back in the shade, there white…. And in the un shaded area there brown. Looks like a photo shop joby to me!
I may be wrong, as I don’t know what colors you can get geo-shite in
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:11 pm
by mickg
Marshalls don't supply geofix, their product is called weatherpoint 365 and is a much better product than geofix
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:19 pm
by ken
Oh right, im sure it was called marshalls geofix in 1996, the last time I used it.
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:43 pm
by lutonlagerlout
feb used to make it then Ken and then it was degussa
i know because i had it with their reps and technical help bullsjhitters
LLL
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:53 pm
by ken
Feb, my bad! Sorry.
Just thinking about the smell of the stuff makes me feel sick
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:57 pm
by EViS
DNgroundworks wrote:bit of a bodge but maybe not, hows about Kiln dried sand?
This is an option, but is a bit of a bodge in my eyes 
.
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:03 pm
by EViS
haggistini wrote:Only way out is to run a saw up the very tight joints and use an epoxy resin jointing compound lick romex D1 or GTFK 850 big bucks but easy to do, quick and it will get down the joints. KDS will last about a week and what's the point of mixing render and sharpe sand ? = sharpe sand?
A saw? Just so that we are on the same page, these are concrete slab made to look like sleepers . Grinding the sides is definitely a recipe for disaster. Or was that a joke :laugh:?
What are the benefits of using an epoxy resin jointing compound over a dry mix of sand/cement?
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:11 pm
by DNgroundworks
yea we know what they are but joints at 2mm are fit for nothing except a cement slurry...maybe...which you cant use or KDS, alternative is to widen the joints with a saw, easy to do...
Dry mix of sand and cement is a waste of time, the performance of a dry mix versus a resin slurry are polar opposites, so is the cost....so apart from using kds, haggis method seems the way i reckon
Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 9:20 pm
by EViS
DNgroundworks wrote:yea we know what they are but joints at 2mm are fit for nothing except a cement slurry...maybe...which you cant use or KDS, alternative is to widen the joints with a saw, easy to do...
Dry mix of sand and cement is a waste of time, the performance of a dry mix versus a resin slurry are polar opposites, so is the cost....so apart from using kds, haggis method seems the way i reckon
The joints definitely cannot be widened as the slab edges are textured along the sides with notches, woodgrain and large irregularities in slab width. This contributes to the 'driftwood effect' and grinding these off would look a right mess.
Would pouring a dry mix of mortar between the slabs followed by a mist of water not create as strong a bond as a slurry?
Alternatively, how about one of the dry polymerics such as the Rompox Easy or VDW 840+, any good when compared to the equivalent slurries?