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Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:26 pm
by guv
OK, so the missus has decided we need to rip up the decking and relay a new patio in paving slabs. Got no problem with that - maintenance free sounds a good idea!
Anyway, the area to be done is a nice rectangle 6.4m x 3.8m and is a solid concrete base 8" deep, so nice and solid.
Originally, I was looking at concrete slabs. I went along to B&Q today to look at their cheapo £1.46 3 for 2 slabs, but when I got there, didnt like the colour. (They are described as silver but they look a deep yellow! yuk!)
The guy I spoke to showed me some 40x40 limestone slabs which are on offer at £2.50 each, but 3 for 2. On top of this, Ive got a card that gives me 20% off - so £4 for 3! Sounds unbeatable!
Now, since I'm looking to lay myself, the biggest thing that concerns me is the fact its natural stone and the depth is variable. That makes me think it might be too difficult for a n00b!
So.......
Should I be ge getting someone in who knows rather than risk messing things up? If so... what would I expect to pay for 3.8m x 6.4m
If its not as bad as Im making myself think..... Are they laid by screed or dab? I'm assuming dab (with the different thicknesses I guess a must to do it that way!) It is just a case of trial and error each slab until its level with the rest? I guess I need to worry about the thicker ones most and just add more cement / mortar to the thinner ones? Hope that makes sense!
Im sure I read that cutting these are easier than concrete? True / False? What would I use? Angle grinder? Tile cutter with diamond blade? (Sorry if I'm showing up Im clueless on this! - But if I'm going ahead, I need to place the order ASAP - and whilst I will have a good read, I'm worried I might run out of time and not get the answers I need unless I ask!)
Anyway, any tips and advice will be greatly appreciated.
These are the slabs in question. Not sure why they show different sizes in the picture - they are all 40cm square.......b&q
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:40 pm
by local patios and driveway
two options pay the money t have it done (maybe 2500 all in) or read this site from start t finish and do it yourself but properly. from your post i can tell theres lots you need to know regards spot laying, (a big no no) etc. if you have the time to learn....
ask yourself this, would you earn more in a week than the labour would cost you?
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:15 pm
by Pablo
http://www.pavingexpert.com/layflag1.htm
have a look at this for a start. Also don't be fooled into thinking paving is maintenance free you'll be wasting your money not looking after it and it'll look rubbish in no time. The paving is low maintenance but still needs powerwasing 1-2 times a year and limestone should always be sealed with good quality sealant becasue it fades badly.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:19 pm
by guv
local patios and driveways wrote:two options pay the money t have it done (maybe 2500 all in) or read this site from start t finish and do it yourself but properly. from your post i can tell theres lots you need to know regards spot laying, (a big no no) etc. if you have the time to learn....
ask yourself this, would you earn more in a week than the labour would cost you?
Crikey! £2.5K?
How many weeks is it gonna take?
The slabs material are priced as mentioned at approx £240 so with sand and cement, I'll be generous and say £100...
No I dont earn £2160 per week! Are you really saying it would cost that much? It didnt think it would be more than a days work... two at the most!
Would I really need to read this site from start to finish - or just the relevant bits? As far as dab was concerned, it was a question as someone suggested that was the best method.... I certainly didnt think that was right.... but thanks for clarifying it isnt.
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:22 pm
by guv
Pablo wrote:http://www.pavingexpert.com/layflag1.htm
have a look at this for a start. Also don't be fooled into thinking paving is maintenance free you'll be wasting your money not looking after it and it'll look rubbish in no time. The paving is low maintenance but still needs powerwasing 1-2 times a year and limestone should always be sealed with good quality sealant becasue it fades badly.
OK thanks for that.
I couldnt see in that blurb the best tool to cut limestone slabs 20-25mm thick? What is best?
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:43 pm
by local patios and driveway
you might find some bodgers who might do it in a day.... they would still need to point up on day two.. then you want to seal the limestone... another half day there plus the cost of the sealer... and all of thats assuming the concrete is low enough from the dpc to allow a bed plus the stone, ive not seen pictures so im giving you ballpark stuff.
for my money ive never been a fan of laying anything on top of existing concrete, especially concrete i didnt lay, instead 99% of the time taking it up and prepping the base to my own standards that i set to cover my own guarantees
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:07 am
by guv
local patios and driveways wrote:you might find some bodgers who might do it in a day.... they would still need to point up on day two.. then you want to seal the limestone... another half day there plus the cost of the sealer... and all of thats assuming the concrete is low enough from the dpc to allow a bed plus the stone, ive not seen pictures so im giving you ballpark stuff.
for my money ive never been a fan of laying anything on top of existing concrete, especially concrete i didnt lay, instead 99% of the time taking it up and prepping the base to my own standards that i set to cover my own guarantees
I put the concrete down myself about 10 years ago when I laid the decking. With hardcore, its a foot thick! Its also well below the DC and the 4" Decking beams plus the decking board itself adds more height than these slabs would including cement.
I very much doubt you would (need to) lay a better base and would certainly challenge why you'd want to add an unnecessary £1000 to the bill!
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:54 am
by local patios and driveway
you wouldnt get 2 of us for a week for a grand.... this isnt 1988 :laugh:
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:28 pm
by guv
local patios and driveways wrote:you wouldnt get 2 of us for a week for a grand.... this isnt 1988 :laugh:
I wouldn't expect too many would employ you to do a concrete base 6.4m x 3.8m for £1000 particularly if you expect it take you a week to do it!
So now you know I've no interest in hiring you and you've no interest in giving any tips, there's no need for you to post in the thread any more.
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:18 pm
by local patios and driveway
no probs, we dont tend to work for people who want to go cheap, our work is of a high standard, so we've no issues there. good luck!
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:19 pm
by Pablo
Right you two put your handbags down and shake hands. With regards cutting the flags I'd advise using a petrol saw and diamond disc with water suppresion don't waste your time with an angle grinder. It's not good for your health dry cutting but if you do end up doing it then at least wear a good mask and try to limit how many others are affected by your dust. Limestone is one of the hardest stones to cut and has a habit of burning out diamond blades if you're using the wrong kind. Hire centres hire out different blades and charge by the mm of wear you haven't a lot to cut so it shouldn't be to expensive.
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:07 am
by London Stone Paving
guv wrote:So now you know I've no interest in hiring you and you've no interest in giving any tips, there's no need for you to post in the thread any more.
Take it easy Guv
The guys who use this site are brilliant professionalls who do a good job. There are so mnayy cowboys out there who will give you a cheap job if thats what you want, but the point they are trying to make is that a cheap job = a poor quality job.
If you are a competent person then you could quite easily do this job but if you go down that route then spend a lot of time reading the main site because there is a lot of information to take in. Have a good read of the site first then come back with a few more questions as there is a good chance that you will need clarification.
If you employ someone to do the job, or you do it yourself you need to be really careful with black limestone. Although its a very hardwearing stone it is quite sensitive to chemicals. If you spill cement on the stone, it can be a nightmare to remove. A lot of people make the mistake of using chemicals to try and remove cement stains. This is the worst mistake you can make and it will completely knacker the black limestone for good. (Me and roger from R&A pressure washing are currently working on 3 black limestone jobs that have been completely ruined, even though they were installed by competent installers). Black Limestone also then needs sealing which can also be easily cocked up. Do your homework
Steve