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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:40 pm
by Exec202
Looking for advice/help regarding laying indian sandstone flags
The area to be laid is approx 54sqm and I intend to utilise the design service as advised within the web site. I have not yet purchased the flags (will await quantity list as supplied with design) and would appreciate any additional advice, not already included on this web site!
Is this the sort of project a competent DIY'r can attempt (I have never before laid any paving)
The area has been dug out and stoned with type one hardcore, I had the onsite builders do this task last year (new build housing estate)
I have brought in a cement mixer and have a couple friends who will pitch (although they don't know this yet)
So as above would welcome any advice, regarding purchase of flags, is the task a realistic possibility for the DIY'r or would it be best left to the pro's if so how much could I expect to pay to have the flags laid if I supply all materials, flags, sand cement, mixer, etc.
I am based in Glasgow, all advice would be most welcome.
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:15 pm
by London Stone Paving
Exec
It is not beyond the realms of possibility for a DIYer to lay 54m2 of paving. A DIYer on this site (cant remember the the thread, maybe someone can drop a link in) laid a beautiful patio using slate. It looked first class and I think all the regulars on this site were very impressed with the quality of the finish.
1. What is the paving material you are using? Different materials require different skills
2. What is the reason you want to do it yoursef? If it is purely to save money then you should think very carefully becasue it could cost you more money in the long run. If you are doing it because you would really enjoy doing it and feel competent in doing a good job and have enough time to do a proper job then go for it.
3. Not sure what it would cost to get done but Stewart from Carberry landscaping is based up in Scotland and he would be able to give you an accurate idea of what the labour costs will be
4. If you do go for it yourself do plenty of research and be prepared to put a lot of time aside to achieve the perfect finish, otherwise you may as well just bite the bullet and call the pro's in.
Steve
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:51 pm
by Carberry
This is the thread you're looking for steve:
http://ext.pavingexpert.com/cgi-bin....trevski
With the information available on this site, taking your time and paying attention to detail you could do it yourself. It is physically demanding though and not something to do if you have a bad back or knees.
Would it be a weekend project for you? or will you be taking time off work to do it during the week? If it is weekend work then you could be there for awhile and you would probably be better getting somebody to do it for you.
Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:54 pm
by lutonlagerlout
I charge around £20 per metre to lay and point indian stone,but I am in the dirty south
54m is roughly 3 days for a paver and a labourer
you could do it yourself,but it depends how valuable your time is
doing it with a load of mates spells disaster IMHO
LLL
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:20 am
by London Stone Paving
lutonlagerlout wrote:doing it with a load of mates spells disaster IMHO
LLL
I agree. You'll be getting cow eyes by lunchtime on the first day
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:55 am
by Exec202
London Stone Paving wrote:Exec
It is not beyond the realms of possibility for a DIYer to lay 54m2 of paving. A DIYer on this site (cant remember the the thread, maybe someone can drop a link in) laid a beautiful patio using slate. It looked first class and I think all the regulars on this site were very impressed with the quality of the finish.
1. What is the paving material you are using? Different materials require different skills
2. What is the reason you want to do it yoursef? If it is purely to save money then you should think very carefully becasue it could cost you more money in the long run. If you are doing it because you would really enjoy doing it and feel competent in doing a good job and have enough time to do a proper job then go for it.
3. Not sure what it would cost to get done but Stewart from Carberry landscaping is based up in Scotland and he would be able to give you an accurate idea of what the labour costs will be
4. If you do go for it yourself do plenty of research and be prepared to put a lot of time aside to achieve the perfect finish, otherwise you may as well just bite the bullet and call the pro's in.
Steve
Steve, thanks for the response in answer to your questions
1.Will probably be mint fossil riven, random size, with the largest unit to be the 600/560 x 450 I have researched various suppliers websites to determine sizes and quantities available 'patio packs' etc, I thought best practice would be to supply the design team as advertised on the web page with my proposed layout drawing and have them design the area within the correct parameters, this will allow me to order the correct amount, hopefully!
2. I have completed all the other works within the garden since moving here 3 years ago, with exception of the sunroom construction, I only did the M&E aspect and had enjoyed the challenge, this included the excavation, planting of the garden area, 50m of wrap around decking, building the structure for the hot tub and construting a timber frame outdoor kitchen area, not looking to necessarily save money, I have never minded paying the pro's to do that which is beyond my realms previously, I would consider myself competent in all the tasks that I have completed thus far, however I accept that having never laid paving before, there is a hell of a lot more to it, than some of these DIY programmes advise, henceforth the research on excellent websites such as this.
3. If Stewart, is able to advise on costs, his advice would be most appreciated.
4. I intend to do as much research as possible and after reviewing different websites, suppliers, installers, etc, I found this site to be most informative and having read several threads, on various subjects, all involved appear to be a decent bunch and genuine in their approach, that is why I joined up, to allow me to hopefully access their knowledge and advice.
Thanks for the input Steve, much obliged.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:18 am
by London Stone Paving
Exec
As I said before its not beyond the realms of possibility. If you decide to do it yourself, all the best with it.
Just a thought, have you considered going for a single size as opposed to a random mix? It will be easier to lay for you and in my opinion a single size looks superior to the random mix.
The area you are laying is a big area so a large rectangle like 845x560 or 900x600 would work very well.
Here is an example of fossil mint laid in the big size only. In my humble opinion it kicks ass on a random patio
Steve
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:35 am
by Exec202
London Stone Paving wrote:Exec
As I said before its not beyond the realms of possibility. If you decide to do it yourself, all the best with it.
Just a thought, have you considered going for a single size as opposed to a random mix? It will be easier to lay for you and in my opinion a single size looks superior to the random mix.
The area you are laying is a big area so a large rectangle like 845x560 or 900x600 would work very well.
Here is an example of fossil mint laid in the big size only. In my humble opinion it kicks ass on a random patio
Steve
Steve
I had not considered using a single size previously, although the layout of the work in the photo's looks really good, the area that I am looking to do is not a true rectangle, more sort of 'L' shape, with a outdoor kitchen at a 45 degree at the 90 of the 'L' hope that makes sense, that is why I thought the random pattern would be more appropriate.
Again having viewed the photo's I would not rule out using the size as advised.
Cheers.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:45 pm
by Exec202
Carberry wrote:This is the thread you're looking for steve:
http://ext.pavingexpert.com/cgi-bin....trevski
With the information available on this site, taking your time and paying attention to detail you could do it yourself. It is physically demanding though and not something to do if you have a bad back or knees.
Would it be a weekend project for you? or will you be taking time off work to do it during the week? If it is weekend work then you could be there for awhile and you would probably be better getting somebody to do it for you.
Thanks for your response.
I appreciate the advice, regarding the physical aspects of the work, although I consider myself fit, perhaps this could be a demand to far.
I had considered taking a few days off and coupled with a few weekends had hoped to achieve completion at these times, I have been assured that at least one of the mates would help out at the weekends, however good weather and a better propostion could soon scupper that idea. Also I think the other guy's mentioned on an earlier thread there is a possibility of the work turning into a disaster, to many cooks and all that!
Thanks again.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:51 pm
by Exec202
lutonlagerlout wrote:I charge around £20 per metre to lay and point indian stone,but I am in the dirty south
54m is roughly 3 days for a paver and a labourer
you could do it yourself,but it depends how valuable your time is
doing it with a load of mates spells disaster IMHO
LLL
Thanks LLL
Perhaps this project is just a tad to far for you to travel, don't mind paying your accomodation cost, however dread to think what the lager bill would be!
Cheers for the advice on pontential cost to lay, this is helpful, as I might consider engaging the pro's, even on a cash basis, to lay the work, especially as an estimate it could take as little as three days, I would probably be there three weeks and counting.
Cheers.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:38 pm
by jonnyboyentire
It will be a huge amount easier to turn corners etc keeping the pattern "true" if you use a single size. Turning a corner with all the bonding the same, making sure you don't run out of true etc is a lot harder in random, especially as you haven't done it before + the building could be out of square.
Personally I disagree with Steve about the aesthetics of random vs single sized, that said, I did a sealant job following another landscaper, who had laid single rectangular 840 x 560's in polished "teak" style sandstone, in a japanese type garden, which looked stunning.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:42 pm
by Carberry
Exec202 wrote:Carberry wrote:This is the thread you're looking for steve:
http://ext.pavingexpert.com/cgi-bin....trevski
With the information available on this site, taking your time and paying attention to detail you could do it yourself. It is physically demanding though and not something to do if you have a bad back or knees.
Would it be a weekend project for you? or will you be taking time off work to do it during the week? If it is weekend work then you could be there for awhile and you would probably be better getting somebody to do it for you.
Thanks for your response.
I appreciate the advice, regarding the physical aspects of the work, although I consider myself fit, perhaps this could be a demand to far.
I had considered taking a few days off and coupled with a few weekends had hoped to achieve completion at these times, I have been assured that at least one of the mates would help out at the weekends, however good weather and a better propostion could soon scupper that idea. Also I think the other guy's mentioned on an earlier thread there is a possibility of the work turning into a disaster, to many cooks and all that!
Thanks again.
Ball park figure of £1000, give or take a little depending on various factors like access, cutting in a lot of curves etc
Indian sandstone isn't particularly heavy, especially if you go for something like marshalls cheapest sandstone (I can pick most of those up 1 handed, 3'x2's included) the problem comes with having to pick it up and relay it often because chances are you will get a lot of them wrong first time.
The reason I mentioned the weekends is because scottish weather can easily ruin your plans which can end up being a nightmare if you're hiring tools, need access to / through your patio and if you're significant other likes to nag about unfinished jobs :laugh:
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:33 pm
by Exec202
Carberry wrote:Exec202 wrote:Carberry wrote:This is the thread you're looking for steve:
http://ext.pavingexpert.com/cgi-bin....trevski
With the information available on this site, taking your time and paying attention to detail you could do it yourself. It is physically demanding though and not something to do if you have a bad back or knees.
Would it be a weekend project for you? or will you be taking time off work to do it during the week? If it is weekend work then you could be there for awhile and you would probably be better getting somebody to do it for you.
Thanks for your response.
I appreciate the advice, regarding the physical aspects of the work, although I consider myself fit, perhaps this could be a demand to far.
I had considered taking a few days off and coupled with a few weekends had hoped to achieve completion at these times, I have been assured that at least one of the mates would help out at the weekends, however good weather and a better propostion could soon scupper that idea. Also I think the other guy's mentioned on an earlier thread there is a possibility of the work turning into a disaster, to many cooks and all that!
Thanks again.
Ball park figure of £1000, give or take a little depending on various factors like access, cutting in a lot of curves etc
Indian sandstone isn't particularly heavy, especially if you go for something like marshalls cheapest sandstone (I can pick most of those up 1 handed, 3'x2's included) the problem comes with having to pick it up and relay it often because chances are you will get a lot of them wrong first time.
The reason I mentioned the weekends is because scottish weather can easily ruin your plans which can end up being a nightmare if you're hiring tools, need access to / through your patio and if you're significant other likes to nag about unfinished jobs :laugh:
Stewart, I presume,
I have just realised having read through the thread, that I had been advised that 'Stewart from Carberry' was based in Scotland, seen your post earlier without realising who you were.
Costs appear to be fair, based on information from others on here. Although the material is not ordered yet, if the job would be of interest to you I would be happy for you to further survey, if you are close enough to consider the Glasgow area.
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:42 pm
by lutonlagerlout
good thinking exec
I normally let any willing or interested client lay 1 flag just so they can say "i laid some of this"
then when they are wetting the leaves i discretely discard it and relay it properly :;): (joke)
A grand would get you a topnotch job
good luck LLL 
Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:08 pm
by Carberry
Exec202 wrote:I have just realised having read through the thread, that I had been advised that 'Stewart from Carberry' was based in Scotland, seen your post earlier without realising who you were.
Costs appear to be fair, based on information from others on here. Although the material is not ordered yet, if the job would be of interest to you I would be happy for you to further survey, if you are close enough to consider the Glasgow area.
Can contact me through email: stewart@carberrylandscaping.co.uk
or phone: 07825 705 066. Can phone me anytime, occasionally I don't answer during day because I have my arms full of slabs or something but I will call back.
Which part of Glasgow do you stay in?