My patio - Or should i say my propsed new patio.

[Bob_A]

I’m going to do my own patio, rather than creating loads of new threads I hope you don’t mind me creating this one in case I need to ask for advice.

I’ll be using Stoneflair Purestone sandstone flags in 4 different sizes (900x600mm; 600x600mm; 600x290mm, 290x290mm) they are calibrated to 22mm.
The patio will only ever receive foot traffic.
I’m on a hill with a average 1:40 drop away from the house and a 1:40 drop from right to left, actually it’s a bit more complicated than that but I’m sure that’ll do for now.
The planned area has had the turf removed revealing a compacted but good quality topsoil which appears to be a couple of foot deep.
Q1
Apart from removing soil at the high points to level the sub base is there’s any advantage in removing the soil from the lower points, won't I just be revealing more of the same earth underneath?

I propose to lay the flags on a full bed of mortar around 40mm thick.
I’ve read this page http://www.pavingexpert.com/faq_subbase.htm#reqd and it says that a sub-base is not always required for a patio but as my flags are only 22mm thick I was wondering if that will make a difference.
I realise that I’ll need to use a suitable hardcore to build up any low lying areas but what about the areas that don’t need building up (eg top of the slope near to the house?)
Q2
Will I need a sub base in these higher areas to support 22mm flags on 40mm bedding layer?

Hope that makes sense.
Cheers
Bob

[mickavalon]

As long as the Sub-base is firm enough, go for it! But for the price of re-claim aggregate and a bit of extra digging, you will have a better end product. We tend to lay onto a solid aggregate sub-base to reduce the possibilities of comebacks ! And we feel the paving has something to grip too. :;)

[Rich H]

Bob, I've laid those thin slabs before and I'd say you should definitely go for a sub-base. Anyone who's watched their nice flat lawn become bumpy and uneven knows that the 'earth moves'!

[Bob_A]

Thanks chaps.
Sub base it is then.
Patio will be nearly 60sq/metres and I don't have side or rear access to the garden, so a lot of digging and barrowing throught the house, then back the other way with the sub base. .
Oh well I didn’t expect this to be an easy job but if a job’s worth doing………
Gonna use a minimum of 75mm sub base at the highest points and 75mm + whatever it takes to get the levels right elsewhere, that’s unless I’m told different?

[Bob_A]

Well my project has stopped even before it got started!
I've got a trapped nerve in my neck, no working until it has fully cleared up, could be weeks

I've contacted Tony and he is going to do the random layout and giving some guidance on the levels, so there's little else I can do until I get better apart apart from sourcing a few materials.

Will probably need some geotextile in the construction of the drainage, how much do you chaps pay roughly per sq metre for Terram or similar?

[Bob_A]

Are these reasonable prices?
http://www.flexibleliningproducts.co.uk/192356.html

Prices include vat and P&P appears to be £9 per order.
What caught my eye was their special offer for 'seconds' was thinking of buying now and having plenty left over for next years driveway project .
Or should I give 'seconds' a wide berth?

[Pablo]

Well my project has stopped even before it got started!
I've got a trapped nerve in my neck, no working until it has fully cleared up, could be weeks

I've contacted Tony and he is going to do the random layout and giving some guidance on the levels, so there's little else I can do until I get better apart apart from sourcing a few materials.

Will probably need some geotextile in the construction of the drainage, how much do you chaps pay roughly per sq metre for Terram or similar?

Snap mate I woke on friday morning screaming in agony ended up having to take my first sick day since 1998 (not the same when you're the boss). Was virtually immobile all day chucked brufen down my neck and by monday morning I was about 90% better so back to work. Regular massaging from the wife helped. Hope you have a speedy recovery it's incredible how screwed you are when your neck is sore you can't do anything without it hurting.

[Bob_A]

I don't know if you read about it on another thread but the area for my proposed patio was originally turfed but the turf was removed a couple of weeks ago.
Since then the ground has been left untouched, by now I should've started digging and getting the sub grade ready but that's been put on hold cos of the trapped nerve in my neck.
That could take a couple of weeks or a couple of months to sort out.
I noticed a couple of very small weeds trying to grow, nothing too much but as a precaution I treated the area to some sodium chlorate and although the ground looks a bit dried out it is free from vegetation.
My question is it ok to leave the ground bare like this?
I have some terram on order, should I temporarily cover the area with it, should I use a wacker on it or just leave it untouched?
Cheers
Bob

[Suggers]

New retired people down the lane have dug over & removed most of their lawn - going for huge vegetable plot - they've covered all that they're not working on, in black polythene - presume it supresses new weed growth?
Will ask them when I'm passing - they seem to be out there day & night !!
Hope the pain in the neck's on the mend....

[lutonlagerlout]

DPM will suppress weeds to an extent,has to be 1200 gauge though,and it will act as a slug farm getting all the slugs from the garden,so you can get rid of them
LLL

[Bob_A]

Are these reasonable prices?
http://www.flexibleliningproducts.co.uk/192356.html

Prices include vat and P&P appears to be £9 per order.
What caught my eye was their special offer for 'seconds' was thinking of buying now and having plenty left over for next years driveway project .
Or should I give 'seconds' a wide berth?

I bought some of this special offer geotextile stuff and it came today.
It says the terram can vary between 90 and 140gsm.
Well it seems there are large patches of thin stuff running through it, you can easily see your hand through it.
Does that sound right, would you be able to see through 90gsm terram?
I'd appreciate your comments 'cos I may ring them tomorrow.

[msh paving]

you bought seconds stated as seconds so there is very little you can do about it,terram is not overly expensive why waste money on rubbish? but the real stuff MSH

[lutonlagerlout]

if its non woven ,then yes you can see through it to an extent
not enough to read the paper though :;):
LLL

[Bob_A]

Are these reasonable prices?
http://www.flexibleliningproducts.co.uk/192356.html

Prices include vat and P&P appears to be £9 per order.
What caught my eye was their special offer for 'seconds' was thinking of buying now and having plenty left over for next years driveway project .
Or should I give 'seconds' a wide berth?

I assumed that as I didn't get answer to the above then seconds shouldn't be a problem.
The man at the company assured me it was ok and their website says
The rolls are result of roll weight/type changeover during the manufacturing process. There is NOTHING wrong with
the quality of the material and can be used for a variety of applications.
So I thought it would be!

If it's not a minimum of 90gsm then whether it's seconds or not it's got to at least match the claims in the advert.

I know it's hard for people on here to say for certain without seeing it but does this stuff sound like minimum 90gsm when you can see your hand through it like net curtaining.
Not having a good week and I could do without this but I'd really appreciate your feedback chaps before I ring them.

Edit
yes I can read a newspaper through it!

[Bob_A]

Spoke to Terram today and they said the company I bought it from is a genuine Terram retailer and wouldn't knowingly sell crap.
Then I spoke to the company and they said they've sold 100's of rolls without any complaint (well they would say that wouldn't they lol). They said if I'm not happy then return it for a refund.
I was a bit annoyed yesterday but today is another day and after sleeping on it I've decided to keep the stuff and double up on any suspect places. Not ideal but I'll put it down to experience and learn from my mistake.
Good job I bought far more than I needed.