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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:42 am
by SimonTown
Hi Guys,
I unfortunately have an issue with the dreaded Mares Tail, I understand the only way to get rid of it is to move!
Anyway, my current patio is shot to bits, one of the last few jobs to be done on my house, and I've been shopping around for a contractor.
I am aiming for either Indian sandstone or Marshall Heritage slabs, in an area of 50-60m2. My concern is the possibility that the mares tail will work its evil back through and ruin the job. I understand that there are membrane barriers which could solve the issue but am keen to benefit from some expert opinions.
The contractors were planning to lower the level mechanically, too high against back of house, and then put down type 1, before laying the slabs. Where the patio meets the house we were planning on a french drain, again to help overcome a historic damp issue.
Any ideas on best strategy would be gratefully received, should we change construction method, or use a membrane, if so which type would be best, and who would be the best supplier?
Cheers
Simon ???
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 11:40 am
by Pablo
If your paving is installed correctly on a full mortar bed with good pointing then mares tail will not be a problem. If you need to treat it elsewhere in the garden then apply some Agritox 50 at a dillution rate of 4:1 during the growing season and it'll do the job. Agritox will not kill grass but will damage tender plants.
Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:23 pm
by SimonTown
Hi,
Thanks for the quick response, but unfortunately with child and free ranging chickens this option would be too aggressive.
One contractor suggested a heavy gauge DPC, although I looked at a root barrier option earlier. Neither are permiable so I'm not sure if there is much in it except cost?
Cheers
Simon
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:12 am
by London Stone Paving
Can anyone elaborate on this Mares tail please?
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:57 pm
by SimonTown
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:03 pm
by mike builder/landscaper
mares tail dates back to the dinasoar era so that tells you how tough this plant is. it has a waxy foliage that doesnt absorb chemicals very well. i have seen it pierce through geotextile within days.
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:13 pm
by Mikey_C
try searching the previous threads (top right corner) vast quantities of typing have been done on this subject. Do not put a DPM under your patio it will hold and cause the patio to FAIL!!
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:03 pm
by SimonTown
Ok, now I'm getting confused, the patio will be non-permiable, so why should the DPC cause it to fail? I can understand that it could cause a problem on a block paved driveway where it would effect the water flowing way.
I spoke the Hy-Tex who recommended http://www.hy-tex.co.uk/ht_geo_rb.html root barrier, however this is also a non permiable membrane so really no different from a heavy duty DPC?
Has anyone any specific experience of laying a patio over a substrate with this weed problem, how did you address it, and how effective was the strategy?
Cheers Simon
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:46 pm
by Trevski
From what I have read elsewhere on this site, a DPC underneath does not allow any water that has permeated through the layers above to drain away, this will cause subsequent waterlogging and your paving to fail. I'm not an expert but I'm sure the pros will be able to suggest a permeable product that will still inhibit the weed problem.
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:30 pm
by SimonTown
Ok, we were planning to put to membrane under the type 1 so there would still be a route out?
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:46 pm
by msh paving
on no account put poly. dpm under a patio or blockpaving,it will hold water in and allow the sand to puddle and blocks sink, if you need a barrier use a high tensile geo-textile material such as terram or lo-track, that system you are looking at is designed to stop roots getting into footings and pipe etc,from established planting, not to stop weeds coming up and it is placed vertically in a trench so water is not a issue MSH 
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:16 pm
by GB_Groundworks
mares tail or horse tail is a b*tch will come through most things inc asphalt, if the area is going to be paved over whats the problem if dosing it up before hand unless your kids and chickens are going to mine underneath it, just keep them off it till the stones down.
only other guaranteed way is like you do with knot weed, muck away 6 foot in all direction inc downwards as contaminated waste for incineration, about £600 a wagon last time we had to do it.
as discussed before the only way to kill it off is repeated breaker of the waxy coating and weed killing, over 4-5 years.
its been around 30 million years(not quite jurassic period) its a tough cookie, i've done battle with it before its harder work than my ex haha