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Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:37 pm
by welshcat
Hi, it's the useless female here - again! i've finally put the last slab on my patio down and now need to get on with the pointing.
I've been reading the pointing page and have decided to go for the resin stuff instead of mortar pointing. My question is do i go for romex easy or for the gftk stuff? what's the difference between the two? also, judging by the wrath given to geofix, i won't bother with that, but was just wondering what the problem was with it, as it seems to be easier to get hold of.
Thanks in advance for any advice that you may be able to give me.
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:47 pm
by msh paving
Geofizzz e stuff is total rubbish I first used it about 7 years ago for a national paving company we had more comebacks than anything with that poo,it does no do as it says on the packet as quick as you brush it in it fall's out ,it has not improved at all should be banned,myself I like gtfk as I find NCC easy to order and next day delivery MSH 
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:31 pm
by Tony McC
Technically, there's nowt much to choose between GftK or Romex, so it comes down to price, availability and service. Give them both a call and see who offers you the best deal....
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:46 pm
by welshcat
that's great, thanks to you both for advice, i'll do as you say and give them both a bell. i presume the number for romex is the romex ray one?
thanks again
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:53 pm
by welshcat
sorry, i've got another question! just been reading up on gftk and romex and they both seem to say that i should have a minimum depth of 30mm. am i still able to use either if the depth is less than this - it's more like 20mm or less in some places.
if not, i presume i'll have to revert to mortar pointing - this thought is not a happy one! 
thanks again.
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:19 pm
by Davesmate
Hi there - this is a common problem - particularly in refurbishment jobs - when how much of a solid exisiting cement based joint should be removed because a lot of it is cracked / damaged etc - the answer is only the damaged material unless you have time and money to jack-up the whole job and relay it - becomes more likely the longer you hit it with the Kangos!
So in these cases the guys at NCC Streetscape suggest using their GftK Epoxy Bound mortars because they have all of the advantages of aapplication and have the best chance of success despite being used below their minimum recommended joint depth (ie GftK's vdw 805 or 850).
The reason for this is also related to the type of paving and it reminds me of something the Gaffer says "larger format paving is more bed dependent and smaller format paving is more joint dependent" - wise words!
Obviously with 100mm square setts for example any shear stress or torque (twisting force) on the setts is transmitted directly and almost equally to the joints - so it must be able to accomodate this and so the minimu full depth is required.
However with larger 600mm square slabs the majority of any shear foces will be transmitted directly to the bedding / support structure and so there will be less stress from this on the joints - so a lesser performance in strength correlation could be used and possibly at a reduced depth (ie a polymeric sand such as GftK's vdw 840 or again the vdw 850).
The decision is therefore yours (alway will be if you have to venture outside of any manufacturers written guidelines) - and is dependent on the size of slabs - but provided your bedding is sound and it is this that is taking up the lower part of the joint, in this scenario either will be better than Geofix or sand and cement by far and i have seen many done this way as 'best viable option' Hope this helps.
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 pm
by Tony McC
Adrian is being naturally cautious. they can;t really go against the edicts issued from Germany regarding minimum joint depth, but I'm not as restricted and can say what Adrian (and Rompox Ray) would say if they could. You'll be fine with 20mm depth on a patio.
Bear in mind that manufacturers are driven by two forces that don;t apply to me and you. Firstly, they need to be relatively cautious and 'play-it-safe' with their technical recommendations. They can't afford too many problems. And secondly (and cynically) they want you to use more of their product, so if it's a choice between recommending 25mm or 30mm as the minimum depth, which do you think they would choose?
I've now seen hundreds of patios and a fair few driveways laid with Indian sandstone/limestone or shallow granite, and as long as you get a full depth of the resin mortar (so that's 18-25mm typically), you'll be fine as long as there's no vehicular traffic. For driveways, I always urge user to get as much depth of the resin mortar as possible, even if it means raking out joints to ensure the full depth of the flag is jointed.
Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:22 pm
by Bob_A
So glad you posted that Tony.
I was thinking of using rompox or GFTK when laying a patio with 22mm calibrated Indian sandstone flags and was going to scrape out 8mm of bedding from the joints.
Wasn't relishing that!
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:03 pm
by richie_jones
WelshCat any chance of any pics....Of the patio that is...!!!
Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:58 pm
by worldofpaving
I have to say that I don't agree that responsible manufacturers, who will be the bulk of those on the market , set out to cynically exploit customers by deliberately recommending that they use more product than is necessary.
One application failure gets more publicity than thousands of successful ones, an excellent example of which we saw with Pavestone the other day on the forum and whilst I don't know Romex or NCC products intimately (and I know you do, Tony!), I can imagine that it is simpler to issue one set of clear recommendations that relate to a product performance level that will guarantee performance in every application.
Certainly where solvent based coatings are concerned, the use of too much product will often lead to solvent entrapment which will prevent the effective evaporation of solvent and lead to the failure of the application.
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:34 am
by Bob_A
welshcat wrote:sorry, i've got another question! just been reading up on gftk and romex and they both seem to say that i should have a minimum depth of 30mm. am i still able to use either if the depth is less than this - it's more like 20mm or less in some places.
if not, i presume i'll have to revert to mortar pointing - this thought is not a happy one!
thanks again.
I know this is almost a year old but the following info may be useful to anyone using the 'Search' function.
On the side of the tin of the latest batch of 'Rompox Easy' it still says min depth 30mm, min width 8mm.
However there is now a sticker on the Lid that says.........
Rompox Easy
New Improved Formula
Can be used in any weather wet or dry
Easily washed in water
Suitable for family cars
Improved shelf life 12months
min joint depth only 20mm
min joint width only 3mm
RPS Romex Protection System. Keep working whatever the weather (cover only needed in heavy rain)
Romex Distributor www.mcmonaglestone.ie