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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:05 pm
by rikwill
Please can anybody help me with a problem with my drive and patio, laid at substantial expense (in Altrincham) about 4 weeks ago.
A local contractor laid the patio first of all and then the driveway 2 weeks later (about 80sq/m in total). The flags are Indian sandstone laid on a full bed of concrete (MOT base etc) with cobble edgings.
Within 3 weeks of the patio being laid, we noticed that the pointing was starting to crack badly at the edges of many of the flags (where the flag actually meets the mortar on one or both sides). The flags on the edge of the raised patio then started moving, as the pointing was not holding them in place. After this, the same things started to happen with about 2/3rds of the driveway, but strangely most of the cracks are on the part of the drive we weren't driving on.
The contractor lifted and re-set some of the problem flags and then re-pointed a large area, saying that plasticiser had not been used in the mortar mix (it was clearly badly mixed as there were lumps of sand in the mortar).
However, the new mortar is now cracking again at the edge of some of the flags (I am not sure if I can attach a picture of this?). When there is a thin film of water on the flags, if you step on a corner, bubbles come out of the cracks.
I have told the contractor that I believe the flags are not correctly bedded into the concrete and that, as they are moving when walked on, the mortar is cracking. He does not accept this and says that the flags are "flexing" and that air pockets in the concrete base are leading to the bubbling. He says there is no sign the flags are moving when they are dry and the mortar hasn't bonded because the flags must have been old stock and not as porous as newly cut ones.
The contractor is now saying the whole drive/patio should be sealed with matt Picseal to stop water getting in to the cracks and that the seal will set it all solid. I have my doubts this will work - are we just papering over the cracks?
I have read some other replies on here from Tony saying "you may still get micro cracks within the mortar, but it's not critical unless the cracks are at the interface of the flags and the mortar, which indicates the flags are moving and aren't settled down fully".
I am concerned that come winter, water in the cracks will freeze and the mortar will pop out.
Could anybody "in the know" please comment on this problem and tell me whether the drive and patio needs to be re-laid or whether it sounds like this can be resolved. I would really appreciate any help you can offer.

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:49 pm
by cookiewales
hi rich there is a strong smell of bovine are they a proper firm and did you see any of there other work :;): cookie ps natural stone does not flex rubber does and steel plate :;):



Edited By cookiewales on 1274288011

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:52 pm
by lutonlagerlout
proper firms dont lay injun stone on drives
it sounds like a fail to me
LLL

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:57 pm
by cookiewales
lutonlagerlout wrote:proper firms dont lay injun stone on drives
it sounds like a fail to me
LLL
i have laid a few but to a very high spec and had eight wheelers on them a year later not for the faint hearted they were modac the hardest indian :;): it does sound a bodge job one for the gaffer me thinks :;):

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:09 pm
by rikwill
Hi thanks for your very helpful replies, but the strange thing is that it is the driveway where we park 2 cars where the mortar is not as badly cracked. I accept that Indian sandstone might not be ideal for a driveway, but that was what I agreed to, so I can't complain now. However, I did expect it to last more than 4 weeks!
If the flags are not properly bedded in to the concrete base, does the whole lot have to be dug up and relaid on a new base or can you just fix the moving flags?
Who can I go to to get an expert opinion on a badly laid drive - is this something a surveyor would be able to do, as I might have to resort to legal action? Anybody know who would do this sort of thing in the North West?
thanks

Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:50 pm
by lutonlagerlout
from what he has said (complete bullsh*t and lies) about stone flexing,airbubbles in the concrete ,stone being old stock he is a complete idiot.
as the cookmeister says indian stone can be laid on drives but only to a very high spec,which it sounds like you haven't got
the problem with Indian stone is that it tends to laminate under duress
so if you spin your steering wheel it exerts sheers pressure on the stone.
I am sure there are a lot of contractors on here in the north west who may/may not be able to advise you on professional surveys
LLL

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:25 am
by cookiewales
the gaffer does surveys can you post some pictures up it will help for our coments :;): :;):

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:55 am
by rikwill
OK thanks - sorry to ask a stupid question but how do I attach a photo to a post? thanks

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:01 am
by rikwill
When I click image it asks me for a web address????

Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:32 pm
by lutonlagerlout
its all here rik
all the best
LLL

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:26 pm
by ABILITY
Richard.

Oh Dear !

As the others have stated already, it unfortunately seems like its a poor 'cowboy' job followed up by some weird and wonderful excuses !
Give him credit for some of the best B***S*** have heard in a long time.

We are located quite close to you and would be able to arrange to call in sometime and take a look, at least give an opinion on what has happened and if there is possiblely some remidial works that may help.

If its a survey for legal action you require then definately Tony ( The Gaffer ) is the one best suited for that, but it depends on the likely hood of getting anything out of the contractor at the end of a battle.

Message us if you like, but can't promise good news !

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 9:21 am
by Helsbels
Hi Rich,

Sorry to hear you’ve had a bad job done. I also know what this feels like!!

I can’t offer any technical advice, but if you need any help with putting photos on-line onto a web page for everyone to see here on this site, then I can tell you how I managed to do it (it took me a while to work it out!!!)
- I created a facebook account
- uploaded the photos
– at the bottom of the page where you’re photos are - it reads
‘Share this album with anyone by sending them this public link:’
Directly underneath is the web address. Copy and paste the address linking to your photos into your post on The Brew Cabin.

I hope this is helpful
Helsbels