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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:12 pm
by robthebubble
Afternoon all,
This is my first post however I have looked through the site a number of times and can't seem to find an answer to my query.
I'm currently doing a complete garden refurb. I have built and rendered some low walls, installed a home made water feature and also some lighting however I'm not sure what to do when it comes to adding a boarder around the turf i.e. so I get a good edge to the lawn.
Below is the plan I did on Google Sketchup which shows how I want to put the granit edging around the turf. I've already put doen a 4-6 inch layer of hardcore (using a compactore after) to get the sub layer but what should I do next to stop the granite slabs from moving? Should I put the sand bedding layer with an edge of mortar along the turf side or should I jsut bed them using mortar straight onto the hardcore? Finally, should I have a joint between each slab, if so how much?
Thanks for your help in advance!
Rob
Google Sketchup of design:
Work so far before the snow kicked in!
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:53 pm
by mickg
nice job Rob 
the granite needs to be laid on a bed of mortar straight onto the hardcore
http://www.pavingexpert.com/layflag2.htm#mortar
yes you do need a joint between each granite flag of approx 10mm - 15mm
http://www.pavingexpert.com/pointing.htm
you also need to use a SBR
http://www.pavingexpert.com/stonpv04.htm
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:03 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
why so many mitres on that completed paving.something wrong there
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:07 pm
by mickg
where are the mitres ?
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:18 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
on the sbr link.scroll down to completed pavement
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:57 pm
by lutonlagerlout
Many public works have a 'lip' tolerance (that is, the maximum level difference between two adjacent paving units) of 2-3mm, and so on street reconstruction work where there is limited control over levels and thresholds, it is often necessary to diagonally cut flagstones to 'fold' them and so avoid lips. This can become unsightly when too many flags are cut in this way. It may be possible to avoid some of the cuts by choosing smaller flags. For example, where a 600mm wide flagstone has been diagonally cut and folded, it may have been possible to avoid any diagonal cuts by using two 300mm wide units and allowing the additional joint to accommodate to level difference.
LLL
ps it actually explains it next to the pictures :;):
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:04 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
no disrespect lll.i have worked on highways works for 25 years .i work for one of the biggest companies in uk .there should not be mitres like that in a footpath.
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:58 am
by robthebubble
Thanks Mick...some really helpful information there. I guess I will be putting some 4:1 mix under the slabs and the slurry (which I wasn't aware of!). The slabs are 200mm x 800mm so I would guess I need the mortar/bedding mix under the whole slab as an even layer.
Do I have to have a gap between the slabs?...whenever I see them around the city centre they are always butted up to each other without any gaps?
No sure what the other comments from members are about re: mitres?....there are no mitres on this project!?!?!?
Cheers
Rob
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:47 am
by cookiewales
rob as michg says solid bed under slabs is correct are your slabs all the same thickness if so srceed out in a row at a time 4 ta 1 mix leave about 5 mill high try and lay slab if it sits down well you know your on the right track fluff back up make up slurry water and cement pour over lay slab have sponge and water to clean off splasses jointing good granite paving 5 mm joint slurry point or better rompox dont worry about shiny finish it disepers quick if you need any more help just shout ps you have a good standerd off work there inpressed with your stone work in gabbons cheers cookie :p :;): :;):but joints fill up with crap and dont look good
Edited By cookiewales on 1263898338
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:42 pm
by lutonlagerlout
ilovesettsonmondays wrote:no disrespect lll.i have worked on highways works for 25 years .i work for one of the biggest companies in uk .there should not be mitres like that in a footpath.
the text was from the same part of the page,but i agree entirely it looks crap
an overzealous clerk of the works methinks
luton council got some Portuguese lads in doing sett work,it was all ripped up within a year and replaced with PIC?????
I think the boss has just used that as an extreme example
cheers LLL
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:31 pm
by Tony McC
From what the contractor told me, the number of mitres was due to an exceptionally fussy RE who would not tolerate *any* lips, not even the 2-3mm lips we'd normally use to accommodate minor level changes such as those present on this job.
I had suggested using, say, four lengths at 300mm to span the path rather than two at 600mm, and use the additional joints to accommodate level changes, but apparently, this was not going to happen. The RE knows best! 
Posted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:02 pm
by mickg
No you don't have to have a joint between the granite, I laid this patio and path about 18 months ago
Granite Patio and Path
because the tolerance of the flag size was consistent I only had a 1mm gap on a lot of the flags, even less on most of them
the reference to the mitres was the link I posted to the SBR, at the bottom of this page is a pavement what has a lot of mitres to keep the pavement flags without any lips due to the shape of the pavement and had nothing to do with your post and the excellent job your making of your rear garden 
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:10 am
by robthebubble
mickg wrote:No you don't have to have a joint between the granite, I laid this patio and path about 18 months ago
Granite Patio and Path
because the tolerance of the flag size was consistent I only had a 1mm gap on a lot of the flags, even less on most of them
the reference to the mitres was the link I posted to the SBR, at the bottom of this page is a pavement what has a lot of mitres to keep the pavement flags without any lips due to the shape of the pavement and had nothing to do with your post and the excellent job your making of your rear garden
Thanks Mick...your link is ideal as the granit I have is all machine cut to the same sizes therefore I don't really want any gaps between them.
Thanks for your advice!
Rob
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:45 pm
by lutonlagerlout
the quality oozes out of your work mickg
do you think your background as a chipie makes you more accurate for tight tolerance?
i laid a few of those artic slabs on a step today,the guy didnt want a joint and i have to say they look neat butted up
the colour they are ,any kind of mortar joint is going to look rough
cheers LLL
Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:30 pm
by GB_Groundworks
is it just me or camera flare but are your Gabion cages blue in colour, they're the welded ones as apossed to the weaved ones aren't they donr need to be stretched into place like the other.
nice job on the facing stone and the small rendered walls.
mick did you not joint those with anything just but jointed together, did you cut them with a cut off saw (stihl) or a bench saw like a clipper etc very neat and accurate mitres.
lovely job.
Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1264026765
