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Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:07 pm
by rimexboy
Hi all
well im not a very happy chappy it has to be said,
I started to lay my random patio on saturday its the nustone patio pack that contain 6 sizes of flags they are raj green indian sandstone.
they are on a 6 inch base of concrete, then a bed of 4 sharp sand and 1 cement that was mixed in the mixer to a moist mix, and they did seem to go down quite well,
But now the slabs are in a loose position and some of them are even rocking slightly.
Im not sure what i need to do to correct this but i can assure you that when they was laid they did not rock.
Any advice or coments on this would be of great help as im now in the position as not knowing what to do next, its going to be the patio in my rear garden and have the odd car go over it to my dog house (shed) at the bottom of the garden.
many thanks in advance
simon
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:23 pm
by dig dug dan
this is a common problem.
how do ytou know they are loose? have you walked on them?
Time and time again i get this from customers, who deemed fit to walk all over the laid slabs at the end of day one, and tell you next morning that there are loose slabs.
If you walked on them too soon, then you will have disturbed them.
Sometimes they have not been compacted enough when laid and this will not help.
Indian sandstone will not stick to the mortar, and will be able to be lifted very easily in my experiance.
The last one i did , i used romex to point, and the few salbs that were loose, firmed up very nicely afterwards!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:53 pm
by rimexboy
dig dug dan wrote:this is a common problem.
how do ytou know they are loose? have you walked on them?
Time and time again i get this from customers, who deemed fit to walk all over the laid slabs at the end of day one, and tell you next morning that there are loose slabs.
If you walked on them too soon, then you will have disturbed them.
Sometimes they have not been compacted enough when laid and this will not help.
Indian sandstone will not stick to the mortar, and will be able to be lifted very easily in my experiance.
The last one i did , i used romex to point, and the few salbs that were loose, firmed up very nicely afterwards!
Hi thanks for your advice
yes they have been walked on your right about that, thats more than likley to be my main problem, but now the horse has bolted how to i put this right please
thanks simon
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:10 pm
by lutonlagerlout
hmmm,this is why i always use a wet mix with injun stone
also you should work your way out of a patio,
I.E. start at the farthest point and work to your entry point
as DDD correctly says it sounds like they were not correctly consolidated as they were laid
TBH get any loose ones up and redo,and if they are all loose then hook the lot up
sorry to be the bearer of bad news
LLL
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:39 pm
by Rich H
Avoid any traffic until they're pointed as well.
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 5:02 pm
by rimexboy
lutonlagerlout wrote:hmmm,this is why i always use a wet mix with injun stone
also you should work your way out of a patio,
I.E. start at the farthest point and work to your entry point
as DDD correctly says it sounds like they were not correctly consolidated as they were laid
TBH get any loose ones up and redo,and if they are all loose then hook the lot up
sorry to be the bearer of bad news
LLL
Hi
many thanks for the advice i will do just that and maybe this time it will be kept off..
should i be looking at a resin for pointing of will a cement mix be ok?..
simon
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:22 pm
by henpecked
I found that using a strong wet mortar mix (like pointing mix) I lifted some of the rocky ones and used the slop to level it out. Didint walk on it for a day till it went off then pointed
HP
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:52 pm
by rimexboy
Henpecked
that sounds good to me, not being nasty but its nice to know others have had the same problem
thanks for your help
simon
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 8:17 pm
by henpecked
It was a bit of a surprise to find that a wet mix is recommended, usually the advice is for a semi-dry, which caused most of my problems in the first run. As the mix got wetter, the better they sat. Followed LLL's advice and the shrubbery (pics in previous post) was stable after 2/3rds of the day.Foot traffic always disturbed them before pointing tho. Sweep the recess before putting the slop in as the smalles bit of grit will throw your slab off 
HP
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 9:09 pm
by rimexboy
henpecked wrote:It was a bit of a surprise to find that a wet mix is recommended, usually the advice is for a semi-dry, which caused most of my problems in the first run. As the mix got wetter, the better they sat. Followed LLL's advice and the shrubbery (pics in previous post) was stable after 2/3rds of the day.Foot traffic always disturbed them before pointing tho. Sweep the recess before putting the slop in as the smalles bit of grit will throw your slab off
HP
many thanks for that henpecked i will continue on laying with a wet mix, and will report back on my progress, its not the end of the world yet but i must admitt ive quite a lot of slabs with movement
thanks simon
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:39 pm
by lutonlagerlout
if its a lot rimex,better to start again
its weird but if i use a real wet mix on type1 and then lay the injun stone on it its walkable to a builder(i.e. walking on centres ) within a couple of hours
this semi dry stuff is ok for council slabs but IME is a fast ticket to rocker city
IMHO
LLL 
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 5:05 pm
by rimexboy
lutonlagerlout wrote:if its a lot rimex,better to start again
its weird but if i use a real wet mix on type1 and then lay the injun stone on it its walkable to a builder(i.e. walking on centres ) within a couple of hours
this semi dry stuff is ok for council slabs but IME is a fast ticket to rocker city
IMHO
LLL
LLL many thanks for that ive got quite alot down now to be honest and the thought of redoing the whole lot again dont make me fell that great to be honest...
im laying it directly on top of a concrete base which is approx 4 to 6 inches thick, so when you guys say a wet mix how wet do you mean...
im concerned about the stones sinking if its too wet..
thanks simon
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:42 am
by lutonlagerlout
hmm if its onto a concrete base , like just hold its shape on the trowel wet
LLL
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:59 pm
by rimexboy
LLL many thanks for that, done my step today and done it wet, told every member of the house if they walk on they are dead..
so i hope they hold ok they did seam to go down alot better lets hope i dont go down for murder,
i have also lifted some of the ones that are rocking and the mix under them seams still like sand it was a mix of 4 to 1 but just damp and i think thats most of my problem,
so tomorrow i will start to relift them and remove all and start again but with a wet mix,
can i use the stuff i take out and mix it with new sand and cement or not...
please let me know
many thanks for all your help on this all of you its putting my mind at rest and when i done my block paving out the front you guys was also fab then,
im blushing now so thanks again
simon
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:47 pm
by msh paving
Dump the old stuff you take out, no good for reuse MSH