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Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:03 am
by 87-1248276126
Hi folks, I've been working at relaying my patio and have now come to the stage of putting in my sub base. From what I've read on the site information it seems I need to choose DTp 1.
Looking at my local building supplies website I'm not entirely sure which aggregate is DTp 1. Here is the website (link) Am I correct in thinking that blinding is the correct choice? A guy in work had mentioned blinding to me and I see it's an option, I'm just not sure if it's the same as DTp 1.
If someone could confirm whether that's the right choice from the website link I'd be grateful.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:36 am
by MBPM
DTp1 is also more commonly and less accurately known as MOT Type 1. If you contact the likes of T**ttish Perkins, Jewsons, buildbase etc they'll know what you're after if you ask for "Type 1". Expect to pay £50-70 per bulk bag (750kg), or £30-40 if you have an account.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:37 am
by 87-1248276126
Thanks MBPM for your help. I'm not familiar with those suppliers, I'm in N.Ireland but at least I can phone round as I know what to ask for now.
Thanks again, appreciate the help.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:27 pm
by Big Phil
From your website, it may be that crusher run is your option. Simply put - it's 'clean' aggregate placed through a crusher and screened over an oversize deck, preferably after all the shite has been scalped off. You end up with a evenly graded material from dust up to the maximum screen deck size (e.g. 0/40mm). MOT Type 1 is a 40 or 50mm Crusher Run material that has to meet certain grading and physical/mechanical properties in accordance with SHW Cl.803.
be careful tho, as 'some' builders merchants have been known to buy in 40mm fill/scalpings (which may contain clay) and sell on as MOT. For smaller projects you may get away with poorer quality, but i reckon you get what you pay for and i'd always choose quality.
depending on tonnage, you may want to consider buying direct from a local quarry?
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:38 pm
by 87-1248276126
Thanks Big Phil. After reading your post I was hopeful that could be an option due to the difference in price from my local builders compared to the Type 1 price that MBPM quoted.
Not being sure I popped round to the suppliers to have a look at the aggregates and explain to them what I needed it for. The guy there pointed me to the blinding and said that's what I should use, make sure I go over it with a wacker plate. When I looked at it it wasn't what I expected as I was thinking it was it would be mostly dust, whereas it was stones down to dust.
Does that sound like the "blinding" you folks would be familiar with or I'm wondering is the term "blinding" over here in NI is slightly different.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:06 pm
by Stuarty
Blinding as I know it is more fines than bigger material eg 40mm. Only used for making up small amounts in level. Wouldnt use it for a subbase. Type 1 hardcore, MOT type 1, DTp Type 1 is all the same thing, well its meant to be. As Big Phil mentions if your needing a fair amount, buying from the quarry is the better option, works out cheaper as its bulk.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:07 pm
by Pablo
Watsy Kirks is just down the road from me their blinding is a 20mm crusher run and not the stuff you're looking for. If you're laying your patio on a full mortar bed then it will do as a sub base but otherwise you'll need the real thing. If you need more than 8tons then phone James Boyd Quarries in Mallusk and thy can deliver it loose for you. Just be sure you have room for a large tipper. The only place that does bagged mot1 is Milebush Supplies in Carrick they also have a small tipper that can do 3/4 ton loads. I think Kirks have a 2ton tipper and they should be able to go to the quarry for you and get what you need. With regards sand the only place local that does decent stuff is milebush. They call it paving sand. I use a company from Ballindery call Davidsons they have a tipper with compartments so they can deliver your sand and stone separated in one drop. Mac Rental in Glengormley have some good wacker plates for hire and Saturday looks like it will be the only dry day this week and into next.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:31 pm
by MBPM
Watsy wrote:Thanks Big Phil. After reading your post I was hopeful that could be an option due to the difference in price from my local builders compared to the Type 1 price that MBPM quoted.
That price is for bagged type 1 in the midlands, England. Judging from the prices for other aggregates on your link, it looks like Irish prices are far lower anyway.
As has been stated you may get cheaper ordering loose loads, but if you order direct from a quarry you'll likely have to pay part load charge of £7 per tonne not delivered under 20tons. Or at least that's the game this side of the water.
So I guess it would depend on the size of your patio and access to lorries as to which option is the most feasible.
Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:15 pm
by 87-1248276126
Pablo, that's a load of great local knowledge you've suplied me with, being honest, I didn't even know those places existed. I can phone tomorrow and see what it'll cost me to get the proper stuff. Going by the calculators provided via this website it works out about 3.5 ton that I need.
I'll give Mac Rental a call when I need a wacker plate, I'm actually in Glengormley but totally forgot about them, I was using the HSS website to work out what a wacker plate would cost to hire.
MBPM, thanks for the tip about part load charge, something for me to be aware of as I thought ordering loose would maybe save me a bit. I didn't realise it when I posted the link but an order less than 5 ton from my local suppliers is only available as the bagged option so it's an extra £4.50 per ton on top of those website prices.
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:49 am
by 87-1248276126
Talk about going back to square one. I'm just off the phone from Milebush and asked for a quote for some Type 1 aggregate. The guy then asked me what size I wanted, so I said 4 ton. He said "No, what size of aggregate?" so I explained what it was for and what does he turn round and say, you're better getting blinding for that!!!
Pablo, if I get the blinding from Kirks is it going to be a major no, no. I'm just getting a bit frustrated trying to do the right thing. It's 600x600 slabs I'm putting down and I was going to lay them on a dry bed as that was one of the options on the site here that I had read up on. You recommend a full mortar bed though. Definately don't want to make a pigs ear of this, I'm just wondering what the consequences would be from putting down blinding then on a bed of quarry dust.
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:19 pm
by Stuarty
for bog standard 600x600s id lay them on a dry bed. TBH almost every merchants in the country has atleast one person that "knows" how and whats "best" to do our job. The size he was asking would have been 40mm to dust i presume.
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:49 pm
by DNgroundworks
Why would he ask what size of type1? I thought type 1 was type 1?
Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:43 pm
by Pablo
It is but 95% of the builders and landscapers in this area ride a horse and don't use the correct materials. Type 1 over here is usually called 2'' crusher run no one calls anything by the right name meaning everything has several other names and it gets bloody confusing when you talk to someone who's used to dealing with cowboys all day and you use the correct terms. Tried to get some SBR the other day and they looked at me like I was a Toff who was too good for PVA(they didn't stock any). Only the national sheds use the correct specs. Everyone still works in feet and inches over here and that really took some getting used to when I first moved over from Scotland.
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:17 am
by lutonlagerlout
10 tonne MOT type 1 delivered today £220 inc VAT,they offered us crushed concrete for half that but i declined
LLL
Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:17 am
by Suggers
I'm with DNGround - type1 is a constant.
Blinding is fines - to fill the voids - before you compress.
This is ridiculous..... 