The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:50 pm**

Hello to all,

Can i start by saying, a fantastic site...

Id like an honest oppinion on the workmanship please?
Whilst realising its pretty hard to jodge work by photos alone, if you can give an oppinion on whether or not you think the following could be classed as exceptable.

We asked a landscaper to lay us a lawn in September of last year,.

The lawn we thought went very well so we asked him if he had experiance of laying indian flag patio,s. His reply was confident and he informed us he laid on average of 12 a year.

Work began after quite a delay on the patio. We had given him the money for materials and the slabs in full in November. Work was supposed to get underway in early December. Christmas came and went and we questioned him as to where the the expected delivery of flags were. Again fobbed off for a time until he eventually turned up in January with half the flags on the back of his van.

Anyway we,ll leave you with the photos:

The shape for a start just doesnt make sense (we had gone over everything what we wanted with him)
The flags are at different heights (we understand its impossible to get indian flags perfectly level, but the heights on some were so extreme, they would have caused a hazard)
The pointing and difference in spacing is quite bad all over.
Cement stains.
Alot of the slabs have lifted.
He has damaged a water pipe, causing our heating etc to fail Â£400 worth of damage.

Believe it or not, this according to the landscaper is a finished job.

I told him i would not be paying him the full amount until the points raised were completed. I invited him to come to the property and we could go over the problems with a piece of paper and pen and come to a solution whereby he gets paid and we get a patio that we asked for.

He has refused to come back, stating that he believes its a good job and we are being picky, he has stated that he will not come back to our house unless he is paid in full?
Letters have been sent, numerous invites have been given to him to come a rectify the points etc etc.

Im afraid the only route available to us is a small claims court?

Could anyone give there honest oppinion on whether or not the landscaper is correct in saying that this is a good job?

Thank you in advance. Please except my apologies if the photos are too large and the facts long winded.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:32 pm**

The test is whether the contractor has done everything 'reasonable' to fulfill what was agreed. That would appear not to be the case. You've done the right thing in offering him the opportunity to redress the shortfalls and now that he's refused a number of things could happen. If you believe you've already paid enough then sit it out. If he wants to take you to small claims you seem to have a case in defence. While I don't know what was agreed in detail or what's been paid, it's unlikely that anyone would think he's due the full payment. He may choose to simply walk away and forget about it, in which case you can use some of the money to help put it right. A third possibility is that he get beligerent in which case you may need to consider a method of protecting your interest, e.g. getting a solicitor to send him a nasty letter. The latter is an expensive solution, though. If you've paid what you think is too much then your route is not small claims but Trading Standards. They will advise you on the steps that you need to take.

I think that's all correct?

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:57 pm**

what is going on in that first photo? what is that under the slabs? I see no bedding concrete at all?

Did they leave the job in that state?

Did you pay them up front? I assume so since he won't come back?

Looks like a right mess to me I'm afraid.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:49 pm**

Hmmmm looks like a right bloody mess.

Did he wear a hat?

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:07 pm**

ten gallon hat and spurs by the look of it

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:38 pm**

colordrives wrote:what is going on in that first photo? what is that under the slabs? I see no bedding concrete at all?

Did they leave the job in that state?

Did you pay them up front? I assume so since he won't come back?

Looks like a right mess to me I'm afraid.

If you look closely you'll see the blobs of mortar. Looks like the dreaded five-spot method, in which case I'm guessing the blobs came up with the slabs. Not good.

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:46 pm**

dog rough
no way acceptable
LLL

Posted: **Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:53 pm**

were did he leave the horse? personaly id get the sheriff and get him run out of town. :p

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:30 am**

Rich H wrote:The test is whether the contractor has done everything 'reasonable' to fulfill what was agreed. That would appear not to be the case. You've done the right thing in offering him the opportunity to redress the shortfalls and now that he's refused a number of things could happen. If you believe you've already paid enough then sit it out. If he wants to take you to small claims you seem to have a case in defence. While I don't know what was agreed in detail or what's been paid, it's unlikely that anyone would think he's due the full payment. He may choose to simply walk away and forget about it, in which case you can use some of the money to help put it right. A third possibility is that he get beligerent in which case you may need to consider a method of protecting your interest, e.g. getting a solicitor to send him a nasty letter. The latter is an expensive solution, though. If you've paid what you think is too much then your route is not small claims but Trading Standards. They will advise you on the steps that you need to take.

I think that's all correct?

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at the photos and reply...

He wasnt paid the full amount, but he has had a substantial amount.

Yes this was the way he left the site. I was obviously disappointed in what you can see. So i did a hunt on the internet and came across this website. After taking the time to read through it (days :rock: ) and also asking other contractors to the house I knew he had made some pretty poor errors.

When i contacted him and asked him to come to the house, he said he wouldnt come back unless i paid him everything owed for the job. I explained the problems and he said he,d come out...10 months on and im still waiting :0 ..

Around 5 months into waiting (and i hope you dont mind) i printed quite a few pages from this site on correct paving methods and along with the same photos above, sent them to him. I then received a letter from his solicitor informing me that this want a true reflection of his work :rock: and he intended to take me to court.

I have also asked for a breakdown of costs and receipts for the slabs, cement etc etc, refused again..

I now know he pointed with the same mix as he,d laid the slabs with. Sharp sand

Thanks again to everyone for the comments, my wife and I were starting to question whether or not we were being picky. So the comments from people who know what there talking about has been a real headache easer.

He also put some fencing up for us. Please bear in mind when we asked for it, our only request was could he put it up as straight as possible....Although we arent bothered about this (photos for abit of tea-time humour) See the results of his fencing skills:

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:53 am**

thats dog rough, he didn't even have a string line for the fence. shakes head. its amazing what people get away with.

that flagging is a joke and the way he left the site with rubble all over the show, regarding the string line he obviously didn't have one as the edge on that path is all over the show.

has he used road plainings under the slabs, the black stuff?

was he recommended or did yo just find him out the paper?

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:09 pm**

GB_Groundworks wrote:thats dog rough, he didn't even have a string line for the fence. shakes head. its amazing what people get away with.

that flagging is a joke and the way he left the site with rubble all over the show, regarding the string line he obviously didn't have one as the edge on that path is all over the show.

has he used road plainings under the slabs, the black stuff?

was he recommended or did yo just find him out the paper?

It was the path and lack of a straight edge that initially shocked us.

The stuff under the slabs is what he called blinding or something...?

Its grey and like crushed slate?

He lives around a mile away from me and i made a criminal mistake of not asking to see past work etc..
I did ask if he had experience with laying indian paving, he said he had years of experience laying on average of 12 patios with these flags a year. I unfortunately believed him.

Its a lesson learnt though.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:33 pm**

What a mess!!! Makes the ideats on Rouge Traders look like master craftsmen ???

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:15 pm**

It's obviously not a good job but the sub-base could well be type 1. Limestone is different colours in different places.

Posted: **Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:25 pm**

ive seen fencing jobs like this before but only installed on a windy day lol:)

Posted: **Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:50 am**

perhaps he needed paying to finance a new string line

thats not poleythene under the slabs is it?

The Brew Cabin

Advice please? - Poor workmanship