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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:07 pm
by lutonlagerlout
well with the weather and my mate ben having noised his back up, i decided to take the plunge and use the paving expert design team (tony mc) to do the random 45M2 patio that we will be doing next week.
normally i kinda do it as i go but with 1 lad bringing the mortar and 1 bringing the flags you have time to think a bit more.but the pressure is on me monday
enough of the sob story.
i emailed tony at 11 AM yesterday with dimensions flags etc,at 9AM this morning a full specification and 2 sets of plans(1 laminated of course) came to my door.
i am absolutely delighted with the plan and am sure it will more than pay for itself in time saved on selecting flags.etc.
i highly recommend it to pros and amateurs alike,
all the best LLL
Posted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:54 pm
by Tony McC
Don't forget to send me photies of the finished job.
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:22 pm
by lutonlagerlout
main area laid
so here is an in-betweener
cheers
LLL 
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:14 pm
by Stuarty
looking good, might just have to make use of Tony's design service just shortly
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:56 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i have a 100m + one coming up that i was dreading ,not anymore
having a plan takes the heat off you, and you can get on with the laying.
i still cannot make injun stone work perfect with 10 mm joints,when its jointed it looks ok ,but due to discrepancy's in flag sizes of up to 10 mm i find i need to use 15-18 mm joints on some of the larger ones or the small units do not fit.no way am i gonna p!ss around cutting 5-10 mm off all the small units
on the above patio we squared up the base and used lines both ways but STILL got some joints up to 25 mm
as a stickler for detail it does my brain in
anyone else find this?
regards LLL
Edited By lutonlagerlout on 1180126647
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 11:16 pm
by Stuarty
yeah but i thought i just made a pigs ear of laying them :O
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 5:14 am
by Dave_L
Sheesh Tony - that's some pattern!
Good work!
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 12:05 pm
by Tony McC
I trust LLL doesn't mind, but here's a small screengrab of the original plan...
... the joint discrepancy issue happens with ALL multi-size modular paving, whether it's Indian sandstone or wet-cast concrete. However, some formats are worse than others. For instance, I find that when the Indian flags have dimensions of 280/420/560/700/840/1120, the joint discrepancy is minimal, but then you get suppliers with flags sized at 275/412/560/687/845/1130 and the joints are all over the place.
Much of the problem stems from the number of joints used. Consider two 900mm flags laid next to each other. Allowing for a 12mm joint, the length of the long edge would be 900+12+900 = 1812mm.
Now, if you then lay four of the 450mm flags alongside, you end up with a length of 450+12+450+12+450+12+450 = 1836mm, a difference of 24mm (almost an inch, in old money!) And if you were to use 300mm wide flags rather than the 450s, you end up with 5 joints @ 12mm = 60mm, which is a whopping 48mm more than the original 12mm single joint.
The trick is to balance the joints. You lay a reasonable area, leaving the joints unpointed, and then stand back and try to balance out the joint widths by moving this flag a few millimetres in this direction, and then tightening up that joint, and spreading the one over there, etc, etc, etc.
It takes a bit of time, but it makes for a better job, and, done properly, the joint discrepancy should be hardly noticeable. Keeping joint lengths to a maximum of around 3 metres helps, as it prevents cumulative discrepancies, but I find that, by planning ahead using my layouts, I can minimise the problem on paper, long before it happens on site.
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:55 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i took the picture from the right hand side of the plan as you look at it
i understand about different joints etc,but what really blows it out of the water is when you get a flag that is 10 mm bigger as well for no apparent reason ,other than the lad in the quarry couldnt be ar5ed to cut it right
so instead of 4 times 300 + 36 mm= 1236 you get 2 times 300 1 times 305 and 1 times 310 =1215+36 =1251
giving you a 51 mm joint between your 600 mm slabs
like tony says you have to jostle things around a bit,but i do find it frustrating
if anyone is considering using the injun sandstone *bricks* i would advise caution
its broke my heart trying to course steps with them as they range from 40 to 90 mm each rather than the 55-75 advised in the catalogue
give me some nice 65mm class B engineerings anytime
regards LLL
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:37 pm
by Stuarty
Well i also emailed Tony requesting a layout with my dimensions. Tis only a wee patio ( 13m2 ) but as i will be doing it all on my own cos its a gift for me maw i want to make things nice n easy for me heh. Well impressed with it i must say, laminated copy too, makes a change from a site drawing that you have to be ever so gentle with so it doesnt tear 
Hopefully getting started on it next weekend.
Much appreciated, and fully recommend
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:28 pm
by nelly05
Have emailed tony myself also.
He gave me a price, and being the stupid boy i am i deicded to have a go laying it out myself.
Umm next time i would pay. LOL
I have been using CAD for 10 years + now and it was not easy. A lot of to ing and fro ing. I have a design and i shall see how it looks.
Defo sounds worth the money though.
Regards
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:58 pm
by lutonlagerlout
updated pics
many thanks to tony for the design ,clients are happy
cheers LLL
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:15 pm
by Stuarty
looks good LLL
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:54 am
by IanMelb
Nice
Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:13 am
by bobhughes
You would swear it was done by a professional:)