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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:11 am
by matsfc
India Stone is available for £12-£16+Vat per metre. should we be telling our customers that its being mined by kids in bad conditions, or should we just accept that that is how things work over there.
marshalls' india stone for example is 3 times that price and they ensure quality workplaces only for men workers.
but i've been to india and seen how things work and its not nice- kids are exploited for any deficiency for begging, so at least we are providing work for hungry families by laying this cheap stone. part of me says exploitation, part says we simply giving them work so they have a job.
business is business so we have to compete, but i have big feeling that maybe we should start supporting the more ethical suppliers- as this new product may just be too good to be (really) true.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:16 am
by Rich H
Some suppliers audit the sources of supply regularly to ensure that children are not exploited and that working conditions are acceptable. There is a cost associated with this which I'm prepared to pay.
I don't buy the line of supporting unethical practises because it provides some form of employment where the alternative is starvation. Life finds a way. Better that we pay more and enforce standards, therefore pushing up wages and with it the livelihoods of those at the bottom of India's social ladder.
As far as customers are concerned. I tell them that the stone costs £24 (or so) psm for ethically sourced or £16 where it may possibly be produced by children on subsistence pay. If they opt for the latter they can have someone else put it in.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:17 am
by MRA
Rich H wrote:Some suppliers audit the sources of supply regularly to ensure that children are not exploited and that working conditions are acceptable. There is a cost associated with this which I'm prepared to pay.
I don't buy the line of supporting unethical practises because it provides some form of employment where the alternative is starvation. Life finds a way. Better that we pay more and enforce standards, therefore pushing up wages and with it the livelihoods of those at the bottom of India's social ladder.
As far as customers are concerned. I tell them that the stone costs £24 (or so) psm for ethically sourced or £16 where it may possibly be produced by children on subsistence pay. If they opt for the latter they can have someone else put it in.
Nice to hear that the Marshalls association with the ETI has actually had some kind of influence, especially on an Installer.
Yes, it does cost more to produce paving from an ethically sourced environment - the Health & Safety implications, the extra expenditure in higher wages for quarry workers, finding areas to quarry which will not have a devastating impact on the environment etc etc.
To quote from part of the Marshalls site -
As a member of the Ethical Trading Initiative (ETI), Marshalls has adopted the ETI base code at Stoneshippers India, its sole supplier in the region. The ETI base code includes the principles that child labour should not be used, no-one should be forced to work, working conditions should be safe and healthy, wages should be enough to live on and workers should be treated equally.
However, while Marshalls is satisfied that Stoneshippers India is working with the ETI base code, it is also well aware that one supplier alone cannot change the working practices of centuries. The problems simply go elsewhere. Labour exploitation is likely to be happening just down the road at another site. These violations of human rights simply cannot be ignored by any socially responsible company working in the area.
In Rajasthan - from where sandstone is exported into the UK, making up 10% of the UK market for decorative paving - many people working in the quarries are migrant labourers who scrape an income among the derelict heaps of sandstone spoil, living in makeshift shelters without even the most basic facilities.
They tend to come from the poorest rural communities and are usually landless peasants who work in the quarries for 8-9 months a year, returning to their native region in the rainy season. In typical Indian quarries nearly 20% of workers in Indian quarries are children, some as young as six, who lack education, health, housing and even safe drinking water. These children work in harsh conditions carrying heavy loads, wielding sledge-hammers and operating jack-hammers, without basic safety gear like shoes, gloves and dust masks.
The exra expense can be justified. If anyone still wants to buy unethical stone whilst a quality, ethical alternative is available, then I guess they are lost to a life of no conscience.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:33 pm
by James.Q
my local merchants are now selling bradstone ethically sourced indian stone for £14 plus vat. just to match the price of a large local importer. 
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:02 pm
by Pablo
Marshalls sandstone for 45 quid a metre you've been mugged. They do a callibrated range for around £30 and an uncallibrated one called Dalestone for £17 a metre. I couldn't sleep at night knowing the I had knowingly used a product that for want of a better phrase had childs blood on it. Have laid it in the past but knew nothing about where it came from.