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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:59 pm
by janicearcher
Hi folks - I've posted about this already, however the debate with the contractor continues and I need some advice.
To summarise, I asked for dark grey mortar; when job was done it was a mix of white/ grey/ white & grey - Finished Paving Pictures Here
Meeting with contractor who refuted completely I asked for dark grey on the basis that he would have informed me that a complete dark grey mortar finish was impossible to guarantee.
He stated that "everyone provides a white mortar finish"; that being the case it was pointed out that it was not white. It was white, grey, etc. etc. - response to this "you are being picky".
So can anyone help here, and advise if something has gone wrong with the mortar and that is why it is various shades of white and grey (it did rain the day it was done)? If it was supposed to be a white finish would it not be consistently white?
All advice will be gratefully received, I am not an expert on mortar and pointing but I feel very disappointed with the finish I've got and I just would like to know realistically if I am expecting too much 
.
cheers,
J a
Paving Pictures Here
Edited By Dave_L on 1191176549
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:13 pm
by seanandruby
i would think he added the dye to the mix instead of the water.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:42 am
by thegardensurgery
are customers really that fussy ! to choose there own morter colour !! or have i read this wrong.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:13 am
by Dave_L
Those mortar joints are shocking! The muck looks like it was far too wet when it was applied!
You have every right to be upset when it comes to the finish - not too sure about the colour......
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:07 am
by Rich H
With Dave_L. Mix looks like it was a bit wet when done, and it looks like rain has caused it to run in a couple of the pictures.
The practical problem going forward is whether it's worth doing something about it. Every slab will now be stained and grinding it all out is probably more trouble than it's worth, for both parties.
Mortar does weather and even when dyed doesn't maintain its solid colour forever. Once the paving has matured a bit I suspect it will look ok.
Unless there is a specific design reason to colour the pointing (e.g. black with grey slabs, etc.) I tend to steer customers away from the idea. It's difficult to do in an entirely uniform way and the pointing is there to do a job - the visual appeal comes from the choice of slabs and their application, not the muck that binds them.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:14 am
by Ted
I think that if the customer wants dark grey mortar the customer should get it.
The contractor can make some trial mixes for the customer to check before pointing. This will add to the cost but if that is what the customer wants it is what the customer should get.
But I agree with Rich H that given time the colour discrepancy should lessen.
The pointing is not great though.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:40 pm
by lutonlagerlout
the pointing is not the greatest,but its not really bad either
to me it looks fairly grey,the white will wear after a while
regardsLLL 
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:42 pm
by Dave_L
I'm no paver, but to my eyes those joints looks very badly mucked in Tony! Looks very high in places and the 'overspill' is horrendous!
I've done them before with our paver-guy, we made a top-dollar job of it.
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:07 pm
by lutonlagerlout
what you done with the jpeg dave?
what i meant was that its not a great job ,but i have seen worse
IYKWIM
LLL
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:20 pm
by Dave_L
Here are the pictures......
If any of our lads had left it like this, they'd have been sent back after hours to sort it out!
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:10 am
by matt h
i think it might have been a rush job to finish before the next rain iykwim, It will weather down and the white will eventually disappear, and the grey will fade also in time. The pointing was almost certainly done too wet, but with the weather we've had this year...
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:58 pm
by wilf
I with agree with most of the posts, but all this could have been avoided if they'd used romex, ie nice clean finish
cheers wilf
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:01 pm
by janicearcher
Thanks to all of you who've contributed here, I've read in several other posts in this part of the forum about romex, and not being in the industry am notsure what it is. could you bear with me and explain a few things?
Is this something you would use instead of mortar? could it have been used in having the dark grey colour I initially requested from the contractor?
Final question would it have avoided the multiple shades of white, grey and black that we have been left with?
Sorry if I this all sounds rather basic!
Cheers,
J A
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:40 pm
by Rich H
Some, and I stress some, contractors prefer to use a 'polymeric' compound instead of mortar. Put simply, the cement is substituted for a polymer compound with reacts (normally with air) to set hard.
Polymeric mixes always look good. They are brushed in, sometimes 'struck' and set overnight.
The main benefit is to the contractor because it is very much quicker to do than pointing the joints with mortar. A secondary benefit is that some products, such as those offered by Romex, are available in different colours.
It does have downsides, too. For a patio, the types you might use do not contribute greatly, if at all, to the structural integrity of the paving. This is in stark contrast to mortar where the pointing is an integral part of the surface. I have also witnessed some polymerics acting as a medium for tiny weeds and while algae and moss can grow on paving they will only do so if the surface has been neglected for long periods. These comments are product specific. I've used two different types of generally available polymeric sand, Geofix and Sikapave/Pavefix, and never will again.
I know that you are in dispute with your contractor so I am careful to choose the following words! While polymeric compounds have been available for sometime they are still not generally favoured (in the market at least) over mortar. The economic case is not always sound - for me at least, two trained labourers with mortar will generally be cheaper than one brushing in polymeric sand, if you don't take the opportunity cost into consideration.
Concerning Romex, which by all accounts is a superb product in terms of application, economics, finish and structural integrity, there are problems of distribution in the UK. While you can get sand and cement (and dye!) anywhere, there are very few outlets for Romex. For most parts of the country, mail order is the only real option. This means over-stocking to ensure you have enough. For a lot of folks, me included, this makes it inpractical.
For a more considered and professional view, Tony weighs up the pro's and con's here:
http://www.pavingexpert.com/point02.htm