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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:15 am
by The-oracle
Dear Forum members
I am new here as you can see, and have no building experience. I have luckily stumbled across your forums as I was searching for an answer to my dilemma, and I wish I found it earlier.
I have asked a handyman to do my rear garden's patio and I bought the Riven Slabs from Wickes (Which were supplied directly from Marshall). He laid the slab on a bed of (Building sand + Cement mix); which I have now come to realise is wrong and it should have been done on a Sharp sand & Cement mix.
My dilemma & question to you is:
1-Should I dismantle the whole thing (24 Sqm) and get a proper builder to do it on a concrete bedding.
2-If I leave it as it is for now, what are the long term implications?
More relevant Info:
1-Patio is well below DPC
2-Patio laid in a random pattern with no straight lines running more than 2 meters and no - 4 corners - meeting at any point
3-The drainage in my garden is usually very good and the patio was built with a good 7 cm fall away from the house.
Your opinions and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Tony Ellis
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:43 am
by Ted
I would get the handyman back and ask him why he has done it incorrectly.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:46 am
by The-oracle
Ted wrote:I would get the handyman back and ask him why he has done it incorrectly.
Thanks Ted
I did, but he insists he's been doing it this way for years without problems.
I do not believe nor trust him any more; I think he is inexperienced and I feel like a fool for hiring him to do the job. I may be looking for a professional to redo the work. I just hope it will not cost me the earth.
I was looking for an answer on the implications of leaving it like this for the time being and the long term effect.
The patio feels solid for now without any rocking, wobelling or movement (except at the edge where it is yet to be done).
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:03 pm
by Ted
Well unless you paid cash to a cowboy and had no contract of any kind, I would arm yourself with the requisite information from this site, guidelines from the slab maker etc etc and go and ask him why he has built it like this.
I think you will find it will start to subside.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:16 pm
by The-oracle
Ted wrote:Well unless you paid cash to a cowboy and had no contract of any kind, I would arm yourself with the requisite information from this site, guidelines from the slab maker etc etc and go and ask him why he has built it like this.
I think you will find it will start to subside.
Actually, I only paid him £300 out of an agreed £800.
We are on friendly terms so far and I explained to him what he did is wrong and that I've lost out on the sand & cement used.
I am just seeking advice on whether to keep it or pay a pro to dismantle & redo it. It will probably cost me circa £1000 for a 24Sqm (he quoted £800).
Are my figures way off?!! They exclude materials ofcourse.
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:59 pm
by lutonlagerlout
both prices seem way cheap for a proper job
i would have thought £1500-2000 was more like it (inc materials )
i take it these guys are working for *cash*
if so you have no real comebacks
you have to remember that groundfarce recommend doing patios the way he has done it,but if nothing was agreed beforehand about laying method,then you have to pay him
he may well be misinformed but he has priced it to do it the way he knows
it may sink over time
cheers LLL 
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 6:22 pm
by bobhughes
As the experts above say - It may well sink eventually. Of course this implies that it might not. It depends on all sorts of things: the ground underneath, the strength of the mix he used, traffic, ants.
Since you dont seem to have any redress from your handyman you surely have nothing to lose by waiting to see what happens.
Bob
Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:42 pm
by slickboy
IMO If It was laid on a good strong 3 or 4 to one building sand /cement bed and on a good layer of mot and it is only for domestic pedestrian use for a garden patio then it would probably be okay-as long as you didn't actually specify grit sand. If all else is well-falls, levels, laying standard-then I would pay the guy and not give him such a hard time. I don't know why someone would bother laying on soft sand though as there is no benefit financially to the paver, it costs the same etc!
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:53 am
by The-oracle
Thank you very much for all the help guys
lutonlagerlout:
The prices are not cheap!! You say it would probably cost £1500 to £2000 INC materials. The agreed price was £800 for labour only, I already paid £1500 for the slabs, sand & cement.
slickboy:
I am indeed happy with the layout, the fall from the house and levels. But I do not want to pay £800 in labour then redo the whole thing again in a year or two!
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:20 pm
by lutonlagerlout
I already paid £1500 for the slabs, sand & cement.
that buys a lot of slabs sand and cement??
did you buy it or him?
most jobs we do the material:labour costing works out 50:50
summat odd here
how many metres was it?
cheers LLL
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 4:56 pm
by nelly05
I paid £1200 approx for 48m2, 2.7m dia circle kit and im2 of walling, all indian stone.
That inc vat.
I was quoted £1000 to fit but decided to do it myself (with some egging on from on here!), hoping the £1000 will go towards something nice (and im tight!!!)
Regards
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 5:57 pm
by lutonlagerlout
a grand seems a bit cheap to lay all that nell,was that just to lay or subbase etc as well?
regards LLL
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:59 pm
by The-oracle
Hi All
I paid £1,320 (inc VAT) for 25m2 Which includes a £520 for Circle & square off kit.
Sand & Cement & other stuff were £125 I think
Labour to fit and dispose of all rubish £800
Total =£2,250 (materials, labour & VAT) so works out £90 m2
I only paid £300 off the labour, but as you all know I am not happy with the fact he used the wrong materials and also discovered just today that some of the slabs are upside down.
I have now got another quote from a contractor on the Marshall's website for exactly the same figure of £800
I am lost as to what I should do. Naturally, I will have to buy the materials all over again.
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:07 pm
by lutonlagerlout
dont do anything rash ,post us a picture and we will give you the lowdown
what flags/slabs were they?
i work on about £80-120 per metre all in, on paving depending on access and other variables
cheers LLL
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:28 pm
by The-oracle
This is the product I bought
Sorry my camera is playing up, so can't take actual photo.