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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:03 am
by nry
Hi,
We have recently been looking at getting a driveway installed. Currently we have nothing, the garden is fenced off on all sides with no car entry etc: the area to be driveway'd is approx. 40 square metres.
After comparing prices between 'normal' paved driveways and other options sich as PIC, the prices for PIC seem pretty good value for money. The PIC costs may partly be good because the person providing the quote is a friend who has started their own PIC business after 8 years working as a concrete quality analyst for a large UK company. They worked up to this job from the ground-up (pardon the pun!) and have a great deal of experience with concrete. Everything they have discussed about PIC has also been mentioned on this site (i.e. type of concrete, drainage, not laying in wet weather, sealant types etc), and having seen their showroom I'm happy that the quality of the imprinting and colouring is good. I'm also happy that this person is not of the cowboy type: I will also be looking at some of their work on driveways local to me that they have installed.
I'll admit to slight concern over this method when reading through this forum: there seem to be a great deal of people who have had bad experiences with PIC, and I don't really want to join them. There is also mention that PIC can be done very well which is a positive thing.
I'm going to speak to the person again as they need to finalise the quotation and design: I will be bringing up some of the issues described on the forum and help pages (which are extremely useful!). Is there anything specific anyone here would ask when looking at using PIC for a driveway project?
I'm not currently up for publishing any website info for the company, though I will PM this to the people running this site if they feel it may be useful.
Regards, and thanks for any reply.
nry
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 1:47 pm
by Tony McC
If you've covered all the basics, such as levels, drainage, patterns, colours and finishes, then you're left with the site-specific issues, such as where CCJs will be placed, type of sealant, payment terms, and, of course, the contract.
Several PIC installers are using a form of contract that is (arguably) legally unenforceable because it is so one-sided and in breach of the Unfair Trading Terms Act. Many don't realise the contract is "moody" because it is supplied to them as part of a set-yerself-up-as-a-PIC-installer 'kit'.
It may seem that PIC gets a panning on this site, but that's because, in terms of complaints per 100 installations, PIC leads the pack, and by quite some way. This is primarily due to the fact that PIC is almost impossible to repair. If summat goes wrong with block paving, flags, setts or any other segmental paving, it can be lifted and re-laid without too much fuss. However, monolithic pavements, such as bitmac and concrete can't be re-laid without re-laying the whole lot. PIC is relatively expensive, and customers have certain expectations. They did not purchase a 'cheap job', and so they are reluctant to accept shoddy work, and this leads to them complaining.
I've no doubt that there is a near equivalence between PIC and block paving in percentage of jobs that leave the customer unhappy in one way or another, but blocks can be fixed, and the issue resolved - usually. PIC can't be fixed (in most cases - I know there are some exceptions) so the contractor starts spouting bollocks about using a tinted sealant and "rubbing down" and the customer feels thay are being conned - so they complain.
Done properly, there's nowt wrong with PIC - getting it done properly is the BIG problem, and that's why I've advised and worked with some companies in the PIC trade to try and improve installation skills. However, there are still too many "start-ups" attracted by the profit potential without acquiring the requisite skills, and there are some traders supplying these start-ups with everything they need (bar the experience) to set-up an installation business.
Good PIC installers tend to have come into the industry from a background working with concrete in the civils sector: they might have been finishers or groundworkers and are looking for a change. The bad installers are, almost always, those that have done a 1 day "training course" and convinced themselves that makes them a professional.
Your man has a concrete industry background, so there is much less risk of it going wrong.
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:18 am
by nry
Well, the concrete is laid and washed. Awaiting sealant coat though typical northern weather means that this might not happen today (Sat 8th April) as planned (powder was all pressure washed off yesterday evening, Fri 7th April).
So far they have done everything described on this site. 100mm compacted hardcore (some stuff that was 'wet' to help it bind apparently) which was all laser levelled. Damp-proof membrane down before the concrete which was then laid and levelled, coloured and printed. They even re-did a section of the hardcore to a deeper level as one area dipped too much with the first compaction.
Crack-control joints have been cut (london cobble means all but one joint is along the pattern so it is not obvious), hopefully the weather will dry up ASAP so they can get the sealant coat down without a big wait.
We've photo'd the whole job, I will be publishing piccies when the job is complete, though we'll probably wait until we get the gravel and border edging in and finished before the piccies go online. Kept the neighbours talking anyhow, even managed to get a thumbs up off one yesterday after they'd washed off the powder.
Only downside so far is that the back garden now looks really worn-out given that the front garden/drive is beginning to look way better than it did before work started! Next years project maybe!
Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:20 am
by nry
Oh, meant to say, I mentioned this site and your name to the people laying the drive and he said he knew (or maybe knew of) you. Guess that's a good thing given he said you were a decent bloke who knew his stuff!
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:29 am
by Tony McC
What's the name of the contractor/company? Good work deserves a mention!
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:55 am
by nry
Fair enough:
Dodd Driveways
Sealing hopefully happening today if the weather holds. Wash down first with I think they said thinners aswell, quite useful given that a neighbourhood bird pooped all over their little company imprint near the gates 
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:20 am
by Tony McC
Never heard of 'em! However, my reputation does seem to precede me. 
Edited By Tony McC on 1144916453
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:30 pm
by nry
Johnathan probably knew you from his previous work with Hanson?
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:32 pm
by Tony McC
Jonathan Dodd? The name seems familiar but I don't know why. I certainly can't place the Hanson link.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:20 pm
by nry
I'll ask him again next time I see him!
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:30 am
by ex printer
Sounds like you chose a competant installer,one small concern though is that after looking at thier website I noticed that quite a few of the pictures that he uses on his site are of work done by a different co.
It is allways a suprise to find photographs of jobs that I have managed from survey to snagging on a website for a firm that I have never heard of ! Maybe next time you speak to MrDodd you might enquire why he has done this
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:41 pm
by nry
Because at the moment they've not got the photographs up of their own work. I think most piccies are from PIC brochures, many were also shown in the brochures they gave me before work was agreed.
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:50 pm
by ex printer
I can see one photo lifted from a PIC brochure, most of the others seem to come from www.traditionalpaving.co.uk,I am not convinced that the absence of a portfolio of completed work can be used as an excuse for stealing others, I also think that it is misleading to post pictures of other peoples work on a website in order to boost sales/expectations .
Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:38 am
by nry
They are photographing as many jobs as possible at the moment, should mean they can start replacing the pictures with ones showing their own work.
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:44 pm
by Tony McC
But dozens of PIC installers promote sales by using generic photos and generic video of work their companies have not undertaken. You can even buy the photos in leaflet form from at least a couple of PIC material suppliers!