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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 6:46 pm
by cibuma
Hi all.
Was excited about getting a patio, the costs are now making me think its only a dream.
I have 34 square metres of patio I am looking to get done.
Tony checked out your calculator, and was a little horrified when my quote came back. Had 3 quotes booked in but only 1 person turned up who I thought was pretty good until the price came back.
So ideally will need to find some more people for comparison purposes.
But my question relates to the majority of the cost of the quote is as expected for labour, and the main guy sends out his 2 workers to do the job.
I have half solid stone and half stone plates that will require removal, and a couple of crappy garden filled brick walls, which I could probably kick down.
Now he says it will take 7-8 days to do this. Is this timeframe excessive?
I even suggested I do all the concrete and brick removal, and take the level down by 7 inches, so its say prepped for laying.
Even that he was saying will take 4-5 days.
Is that right? He would be sending out 2 people, so as you can imagine I am looking at approximately £2500 + VAT purely in labour charges for my patio, or even £1500 + VAT if I do a lot of the work.
Any help is appreciated, as it looks like at those rates, my patio dream may be over.
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:22 am
by Tony McC
34m² - what type of paving?
What's there now?
Assuming this is a typical back garden and you have an existing paved surface along with the gartden walls you mention, this is the sort of job that should take a 3 man gang no more than 4 days. Obviously, if there are other problems, such as drainage or you're having something fancy laid, this would affect the timespan, but 4 days is fairly generous for a 34m² patio.
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:06 pm
by cibuma
Hi Tony
Thanks for the prompt reply.
Still undecided on the exact stone but it will be a standard one like Millstone. Something between £20 - £30 per metre inclusive of VAT. Nothing fancy on the patterns, and a mere 3 inch loose stone / scoria run at the side of the house, as I dont have a lot of drainage points and my guess is you dont want water accumulating by the house wall. There is a square cement block which would need to be hammered up (houses the pipeworks I beleive), plus a 8x2 metre fixed cement path. Then in the other area non bonded concrete slabs, which should be able to be easily removed.
Bit of dirt and brick removal, nothing major at all with that part of it.
The quote was for 2 people to do it at a cost of £320 per day.
Hence we are getting the £3000 labour costs.
I think I am in a position where I am going to have to try some of this myself.
At least the concrete removal, as the biggest cost is labour.
So if I prepare a 7 inch from original starting height, dirt base, how long will it take given that starting point for 2 patio people to lay 34 m2 of a standard block??
Thanks
Martin
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:45 pm
by Tony McC
320 quid per day for 2 men? Are they genuine tradesmen or are they labourers? I know prices vary throughout the nations, and you can pay silly money in London Village and other parts of Lower Britain, but even down there, I'd want highly skilled tradesmen for that sort of money, and I wouldn't want any dawdling - turning up at 9 and buggering off at 3 with a three hour trip to the BM for a bag of sand in between.
If you do all the prep, the excavation, the cart away, levelling up with any sub-base material that might be required, and installation of any drainage, then a decent 2 or 3 man gang should be able to lay 34m² of riven-effect paving in not more than 2 days. A decent 3 man gang would have it done in one long-ish (10 hours) day, if the weather was with them.
Edited By Tony McC on 1111589186
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:32 pm
by Nigel Walker
You must be feeling generous Tony.
34m2 - 3 man gang 10 hours.
If everything was prepared and I could start mixing and laying at 8 am , I would have it all laid, pointed and leave site within 7-8 hours - using 2 men.
The best I have done so far - using 2 men - is 50m2 of Marshalls Saxon 3 sizes, laid and pointed in an 8 hour shift. All the materials were within 10m of the area of work, so not a lot of carting - plus hardly any cutting.
Maybe I am working to fast and ned to slow down.
Thats why i have a bad back !!!!
Nigel
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:14 pm
by Tony McC
Don't talk to me about bad backs! 
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:19 pm
by cibuma
Thanks for the replies guys. Gives me a lot better idea.
I asked the guy if he would be onsite any of the time, and he said it would be just 2 labourers, which he would have trained up. So not overly confident of those people.
Yes in North West London so can understand maybe slightly higher charges, but no excuses for the job taking more than twice as long as it should.
It gives me a lot better idea now of what I should be looking at.
I will attempt to do some of the work myself, and then get the experts in once I have exhausted my efforts/knowledge or my back which ever comes first.
Nigel, you sound like the type of person I need. Any chance you are located anywhere near the north of london, and feel like attempting 34 m2 in a day? 
Actually I would even help out and pay a bonus if you do it all in a day. Or if not located nearby, know of anyone that will quote this work in days of labour accurately.
Cheers
Martin
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:22 pm
by Nigel Walker
I'm a long long way from London.
The Lake District / Cumbria is my home
Im afraid i dont travel that far, but it all depends on what kind of bonus !!!!
Do you not fancy trying to lay yourself. If you can do all the prep work, then why not give the laying a go. 34m2 is not a very big area. Just do it in stages 10m2 at a time or even less.
There is always help and advice available here.
It will give you a lot more satisfaction looking at your new patio knowing that you did it all.
If you have a go and find you cannot do it, then get someone in to do it.
What will you lose - a days work and a bit of sand and cement - you can always lift and re-use flags.
Nigel
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:37 pm
by cibuma
OK Nigel.
I will give it a go.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Not much DIY experience but given I have just bought this place, as good a time as any to begin learning it all.
