Newbie patio layer seeks expert's assistance !!!

[PaulW]

Please can anyone offer some assistance / help / guidance!!!

Having never tackled anything like this before, I want to be sure of the facts before I go ahead and order the materials, and also before I mess the whole job up! I’ve gone through the pages of this website, and think I have most answers but would really like conformation on a few points. If I’m talking rubbish, then please do say so!

I’m about to start laying an L-shaped patio area of 35 sq m’s, using Indian sandstone. I’ve been to Stonescape in Wigan and the sizes available are 1200x600, 900x600, 600x600, 600x450, 600x290, 290x290

1. Is there an ideal number of flag sizes to use, and is there an advantage to more or less?

2. I was thinking of using 900x600, 600x600, 600x450, 290x290. Is this a good starting point? Also, if I can be very cheeky, and asking if anyone has a design plan using these sizes, or a design using the other sizes mentioned, I would be eternally grateful if they could share this with me (I’ve tried downloading a couple of free CAD programs, but with my computer knowledge, I’m unable to get any satisfactory results).

3. I’ll be laying this onto a 50mm bed of 10:1 semi-dry bedding mix, made up of 4 x sharp sand, 6 x small gravel and 1 x Ordinary Portland Cement. Is this what I need to order from the builders’ merchants, or will they have this available pre-mixed (sharp sand and small gravel) ready for me to mix in the cement?

4. What area should I work to, so as not to allow the mix to start setting or in other words, how long have I got to get the flags down after putting down the bedding mix?

5. As for the mortar joint, I think I need to use the “Buttered� method. Is this correct? Also, for the mortar, do I mix this is as described “Class 2�, i.e. consists of 4 units of building sand (aka 'soft sand') to 1 unit of ordinary Portland cement?

6. This is now where my confusion really set’s in. How best should I point the flags, bearing in mind that at this time of year it will probably be damp/wet a lot of the time which may mean a delay between laying the flags and actually being able to point them. Should I be using the dry sand method, dry grouting or just plain old mortar pointing?

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and for any advice that you can give me.

I’ll take some digital photo’s showing a before and after, with hopefully a big difference between the two.

Paul.

[Tony McC]

1 - depends on the site layout. Random layouts look best when there is contrast between the largest and the smallest sizes. However, as these are the most awkward sizes to lay, try to use more of the mid-sizes and fewer of the biggest/smallest sizes.

2 - sounds ok - if you have any wide-ish areas, it's worth incorporating two or three of the 1200s as they really do stand out and emphasise the randomness of the layout, but, if not, don't worry about it.

Random layouts are created to suit specific sites. If you had, say, a 7.5m rectangle, you might be able to scrounge a layout plan from someone, but all the layout plans that I provide are unique and I don't give them away.

3 - you'll need to buy separate bags of grit sand and 10mm gravel. You could use all grit sand, as the grit we have here in the NW of Eng-er-land is great for making a coarse bedding mix and there's no real need to use the gravel.

In some parts of the country, the BMs supply "All-in ballast" which is a mix of sand, grits and gravel, but it's a bit hit-and-miss: sometimes too sandy, sometimes too gravelly, but it's better than nowt.

4 - mix up a barrowful at a time and see how you get on. If you use semi-dry (no added water) you'll get a good 6 hours working time at this time of year. I'd guess that you'd be able to knock out a 5 barrow mix and use it all up long before it starts to turn.

5 - yes.

6 - If the surface of the flags remains dry and you've buttered the joints, you can sweep in a dry mix of sand and cement as soon as you have the flags evened out jopint-wise, and then tool that into the still reasonably fresh buttering mortar. However, if you want a coloured mortar, the method outlined on the Pointing Case Study page is your best bet.

[PaulW]

Thanks Tony for your prompt and full reply.

Couple more questions please..

2 - I'll try and incorporate a few of the larger sizes as suggested. The longer of the L-shaped sides is along the rear of the house, 10m's as oppose to the max width of 5m's. Should I lay the flags running length ways with the house, or is it down to personal preference?

3 - Maybe I’m now being picky, should I use 10mm gravel for the dry mix, and not 6mm?

6 - Is this dry mix of sand and cement at the ratio of 4:1?

Thank you.

[Tony McC]

2 - up to thee, as they say in Wiggin.

3 - 10mm or 6mm - makes no odds.

6 - yep.